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★★★[ARENA] - benefits of adding ARENA to SWTOR★★★

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
★★★[ARENA] - benefits of adding ARENA to SWTOR★★★

jitsuo's Avatar


jitsuo
03.15.2012 , 07:27 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Mirialol View Post
yea, but queues will be based on ratings, so terrible players will queue in vs other terrible players (hopefully having close to 50% win rate)
I would be all for it. I think a 1v1 arena would make players themselves get better. Certain classes and specs will be seen a LOT so strats will be inspired to beat them. For the bottom 50% it will inspire cookie cutters, for the top 50% it will inspire creativity.
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonewild View Post
PVP was overpowered, and under performed. It will therefore be removed from the game until which time it can be implemented to a level of satisfaction deserved by SWTOR customers!

caultonpos's Avatar


caultonpos
03.15.2012 , 07:27 PM | #32
Ok I vote arena for 2013 - earliest it will come i bet

Mirialol's Avatar


Mirialol
03.15.2012 , 07:28 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by iceperson View Post
thats why i suggested the idea of 1v1 arena with 'weighted' ratings to help point out class imbalance issues, so we can avoid such problem in swtor


plus we won't see that kind of 'OP comps' and unbeatable synergy in WoW. Reason why certain classes synergize so well in WoW is because of the CC's and diminishing returns. SWTOR is based on resolve system, so we wont see such exceptionally strong class synergy between any particular classes.

iceperson's Avatar


iceperson
03.15.2012 , 07:32 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Mirialol View Post
thats why i suggested the idea of 1v1 arena with 'weighted' ratings to help point out class imbalance issues, so we can avoid such problem in swtor


plus we won't see that kind of 'OP comps' and unbeatable synergy in WoW. Reason why certain classes synergize so well in WoW is because of the CC's and diminishing returns. SWTOR is based on resolve system, so we wont see such exceptionally strong class synergy between any particular classes.
lol, in 1v1 there will always be class balance issues unless all the classes are identical. is this a joke thread?

Mirialol's Avatar


Mirialol
03.15.2012 , 07:38 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by iceperson View Post
lol, in 1v1 there will always be class balance issues unless all the classes are identical. is this a joke thread?
goal of 1v1 ladder would be to provide data to help shape 1v1 balance of the game.

i firmly believe given enough time and effort from playerbase/bioware, all 36 matchups in this game can be maintained close to 50:50 (at most 60:40) ratio as possible


1v1 ladder itself can potentially be 'extremely balanced' with weighted point gain/loss system, even if not all matchups are 50:50 balanced

Elear's Avatar


Elear
03.15.2012 , 07:39 PM | #36
Let me open with everyone favourite quote
Quote:
Pardo thinks that the single greatest mistake as far as design of the game is concerned was the choice to introduce competitive "e-sports" into the game via Arenas.

And on, to "lying, or just ignorant?"
Quote: Originally Posted by Mirialol View Post

3. Arena will help balance this game's PvP

-First of all you don't seem to know how unbalanced WoW is. One thing that I was impressed with SWTOR as a game was that, for a new game, the classes were EXTREMELY balanced. I played WoW for years since TBC, and even 1v1-wise star wars is FAR more balanced than WoW ever was.


-So many of you complain that how "unbalanced" this game is. People claim that SWTOR can't have arenas because it is "unbalanced". But do you even know what makes this game so unbalanced, how is it unbalanced, or how can the game be fixed? Everyone has different opinion on what class is OP... every one whines about different things on pvp forums, everything is a huge mess.
Surprise. Wow had arenas and was unbalanced. SWTOR doesn't have arenas and is balanced. So how arenas affect so-called 'balance'?



Quote: Originally Posted by Mirialol View Post
-Arenas will provide both the players and developers with valuable statistics and numbers they need to see which classes and which aspects of the game are truly unbalanced. Arena ladder in my opinion should not only show you names / classes / ratings, but it should also publicly show all of these raw data to allow us to see the state of the game. Some of these include...

*We can compare the percentage distribution of the 8 classes on the top ~200 of the ladder, to the overall class population distribution.

*Most popular (FOTM) team comps on the ladder to study class synergies

*Win loss ratio % of every class vs class matchup (for 1v1 arena), to see which class is particularly overpowered vs another class.

*more

Although some of player opinions on the PvP forums are valuable, arenas will give us the numerical data that we can actually work with. It will answer all of these questions and give us an idea of how to solve them.
Another surprise. Devs already have access to such data(and much more). And by not giving it to public they prevent 'justified' crying('class A on average kills others 10% faster than my class! nerf nao!').



Quote: Originally Posted by Mirialol View Post
Would you rather have this game balanced around endless QQ'ers and whine threads on PvP forums? Or would you have the game balanced around TANGIBLE statistics and numbers? you decide...
I would rather not have game balanced around some stupid 2v2, thank you. You folks playing only arenas may not care about anything else, but you know, others do.

iceperson's Avatar


iceperson
03.15.2012 , 07:41 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Mirialol View Post
goal of 1v1 ladder would be to provide data to help shape 1v1 balance of the game.

i firmly believe given enough time and effort from playerbase/bioware, all 36 matchups in this game can be maintained close to 50:50 (at most 60:40) ratio as possible


1v1 ladder itself can potentially be 'extremely balanced' with weighted point gain/loss system, even if not all matchups are 50:50 balanced
wow, just wow. i suggest you stick with karate champ. MMOs with unique classes with interesting and defining abilities isn't for you.

Mirialol's Avatar


Mirialol
03.15.2012 , 07:43 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by iceperson View Post
wow, just wow. i suggest you stick with karate champ. MMOs with unique classes with interesting and defining abilities isn't for you.
you complain because classes are unbalanced in pvp


but now you say you're going to complain if classes become perfectly balanced 50:50. classes can be balanced while still retaining their individuality and class defining abilities.


what do you really want?

Ritterific's Avatar


Ritterific
03.15.2012 , 07:44 PM | #39
That was a very well thought out post. I particularly appreciated that you took the time to explain how Blizzard wished they could "uninvent" arena play. Unfortunately, I think Blizzard made the right move trying to down play arenas and introduced the rated battlegrounds.

In WoW, rated battlegrounds didn't work for a few reasons. First and foremost, arenas were already in the game and organizing 5 (or the easiest of all just 2) people onto a team was a much faster and easier way to get your pvp rewards instead of trying to get 10 people to play with all the time. In order to combat this "path of least resistance" behavior, Blizzard introduced the second reason that rated BG's didn't work. They tried to force people to do rated BG's to get maximum PvP rewards. And I'm pretty sure everyone know's what happens when you are forced to do something, you end up hating it.

The last reason that I believe rated BG's didn't go so well in WoW was because the BG's weren't designed with that type of play in mind. Imagine an original Warsong Gultch match (before all the time limits, increased damage to the flag carrier, etc. were introduced) against 2 equally matched teams. It would literally never end.

Bioware is in a much better position to successfully run rated Warzones. There is no arena (which is an absolute nightmare to balance, fyi the main reason I don't want to see it in this game) already in this game that offers easy rewards. The smaller warzone sizes are much more rated WZ friendly. The faster pace should also keep things interesting.

If people really want a pure "kill everything in site" experience, I think BW should introduce some kind of King of the Hill Warzone. One spot to capture, whichever side has the most people in the spot earns the points, so killing everyone in sight is literally how you capture the objective. I just don't think arena brings anything to PvP outside of giving people bragging rights, which rated WZ's should do anyway. So, there really is no need for it...

Mirialol's Avatar


Mirialol
03.15.2012 , 07:45 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Elear View Post
Surprise. Wow had arenas and was unbalanced. SWTOR doesn't have arenas and is balanced. So how arenas affect so-called 'balance'?
WoW's pvp was destined to be unbalanced with or without arena, because of the CC / diminishing returns system. Not to mention that blizzard simply slapped arenas into the game, and neglected it completely for years for most part. SWTOR pvp is based on resolve system, and data from 1v1 matchups can point out any unbalance issues, something wow never did

and stop trolling this thread with your uneducated, uninformed nonsense