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To many abilities - piano playing must be reduced...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
To many abilities - piano playing must be reduced...

wtfnonamefree's Avatar


wtfnonamefree
03.15.2012 , 10:29 AM | #171
Quote: Originally Posted by Scoobings View Post
I'm just going to stop there because this premise is getting pretty absurd. Can you re-explain your point?
You know, that he can't. Probably won't stop him from trying, though...
Darth Fector
Tankasin EU | Jen'jidai
"Slippery as a greased Hutt"

EternalFinality's Avatar


EternalFinality
03.15.2012 , 10:36 AM | #172
OP is right. They need to remove redundant abilities and merge some. The saber throw / dispatch comment is a good point.

They also need macros.

MPagano's Avatar


MPagano
03.15.2012 , 10:40 AM | #173
I play a jugg immortal spec. I have been a keybinder since I first started playing MMOs. This subject line caught my eye.

I play jazz piano, and I've frequently joked with my friends that if I didn't have that hand strength and flexibility then I would have to practice clicking.

I agree with the idea that ability bloat needs to be pruned and streamlined. macros would enable this, although BW has communicated that they do not intend on implementing macros anytime soon.

MuNieK's Avatar


MuNieK
03.15.2012 , 10:40 AM | #174
Quote: Originally Posted by Scoobings View Post
Wouldn't you argue that the class with 300 binds has a really high skill ceiling? That class is probably way harder to use right? I mean, if every other class could be just as effective but with only 3 binds then that class would need looked at. However, if every class has the same requirements then it simply means the game has a higher skill ceiling.
Yes, the skill of piano playing in short on forums called just "skill". I dont have it, i admit it - i can utilise only hotkeys i have listed in first post with exception for still comfortable shift+e,r,t,v,f. That doesnt require me to relocate my hand from my firm WASD comfortable position and i can transmit my intentions trough that firm interface to my character quite naturally without discomfortable struggle.

Im not good at this skill of piano playing indeed - but still there is humongous amount of players who are much much worse than me. But those players may have intelligence insetad, as i do have intelligence as my streght and i like to stimulate it while playing instead and i would like to utilise it in my gameplay comfortable way. Easy interface and complex gameplay - thats what people without piano-playing skill wants. Less hotkeys doesnt mean game is simpler... Unless you think chess is dumbed down games for noskills and idiots.

Please people stop filling this thread with your charmign story of how wonderfull piano-players you are or how happy you are with your keyboard-mouse - it just doesnt bring anything to discussion and only adds unneccesary pages.

If Bioware doesnt change their playerbase goal the people who prefer mind feast over fingers' struggle feast will just move to another game and swtor will stay labeled as game for skilled kids who are great at keyboard "piano-playing". Fine, i would just like to know if i should waste 1 more subscription in wait for some change or just move away already.

Scotland's Avatar


Scotland
03.15.2012 , 10:45 AM | #175
if you have problems using a keyboard, maybe an xbox or PS3 would suit you better.

i dont own a multi button mouse and i have a standard keyboard

i use qwertyasdfgh1234567890-=F1F2F3F4F5F6F7F8F9F10F11F12 and tab
i use alt + 123456F1F2F3
i use shift + 1234F1F2F3F4
i use my middle mouse button, space, home, end, pgup, pgdn
i use alt + home end pgup pgdn
i use all numbers on numpad
and i use my mouse for moving my screen about and on occasion selecting targets.
i also use alt + wheeldown and wheelup
last but not least i also have alt + f that i use

DcCrow's Avatar


DcCrow
03.15.2012 , 10:45 AM | #176
I have been a keyboard jockey since SC came out, and needless to say its the only way i play. But i will admit there are some abilities that can be edited slightly, but none that i can think of at the moment since i am off to play using my naga and black widow.

BrutalPain's Avatar


BrutalPain
03.15.2012 , 10:48 AM | #177
Quote: Originally Posted by wtfnonamefree View Post
- Stims can be changed depending on situation (offensive/defensive) on a whim (I am biochem, which you could've known from my usage of rakate medpack - they are reusables).

- I use my mount all the time, PvPing in Ilum

- Sprint no longer needs to be reapplied after death since 1.1 already iirc. But you are right - I do not use it in PvP

- Dark Ward will certainly be used again, come 1.2. At the moment I use it in PvE only, but this will change in a few weeks. I already use it in PvE and will not change my binds anytime soon. Also, other assassins run with a shield generator already (poor souls^^). They have to bind it anyway and they are the same class and the same spec, so definitely counting.

- Again you are wrong - I can use 2 different medpacks. The wz medpack has a 3m cd, while the rakata is on 90cd, which aligns with the shared cd of both. This way I can alternate between them every 90s (wz medpack heals for much more) to get optimal results.

- The different types of adrenals are there for a reason, too (I even bothered to explain it in my first post...). I prefer to use the expertise one, because it's just more bang for the buck. But if I manage to catch an expertise pickup buff, it would be wasted to use the expertise adrenal (they do not stack) and I use the power adrenal.

- My point with crushing darkness was explained already, too. It's for a different spec, but you're right, I could change it for e.g. wither, which I wouldn't have then. I prefer to stick with my bind layout to suit muscle memory. More of a preference than a necessity, though.

- Ofc companion passive is not used in PvP, you're right

edit: forgot about ooc heal - you'd know how important it is to get a fast ooc heal (and why clicking anything is inferior to a bind) if you played a stealth class and/or had any clue about competitive PvP at all.

So, what is your point, really? If things like those are too complicated for you, please refrain from commenting.

edit2: One very important reason for keybinding everything is the ability to always mouselook/move at any given point, which gives superior situational awareness.

Im fine with my keybindings. I binded all abilities too and dont have problems with it. I just wanted to explain to the criers that if its difficult for them after 50lvl they are just lazy.
And yeah you can have different adrenals/medpacks bound but its not needed for a fresh 50 or casual. They are lazy to ask from other players avice or find out themself.

Scotland's Avatar


Scotland
03.15.2012 , 10:50 AM | #178
Quote: Originally Posted by MuNieK View Post
Yes, the skill of piano playing in short on forums called just "skill". I dont have it, i admit it - i can utilise only hotkeys i have listed in first post with exception for still comfortable shift+e,r,t,v,f. That doesnt require me to relocate my hand from my firm WASD comfortable position and i can transmit my intentions trough that firm interface to my character quite naturally without discomfortable struggle.

Im not good at this skill of piano playing indeed - but still there is humongous amount of players who are much much worse than me. But those players may have intelligence insetad, as i do have intelligence as my streght and i like to stimulate it while playing instead and i would like to utilise it in my gameplay comfortable way. Easy interface and complex gameplay - thats what people without piano-playing skill wants. Less hotkeys doesnt mean game is simpler... Unless you think chess is dumbed down games for noskills and idiots.

Please people stop filling this thread with your charmign story of how wonderfull piano-players you are or how happy you are with your keyboard-mouse - it just doesnt bring anything to discussion and only adds unneccesary pages.

If Bioware doesnt change their playerbase goal the people who prefer mind feast over fingers' struggle feast will just move to another game and swtor will stay labeled as game for skilled kids who are great at keyboard "piano-playing". Fine, i would just like to know if i should waste 1 more subscription in wait for some change or just move away already.
you really gonna try and compare it to chess?

i mean you could be playing chess against a toddler or a grandmaster, the range is as long as a piece of string.

Bioware already confirmed they wont be adding macro's that simulate "ANY" kind of combat automation, this includes using 2 or more abilities with 1 button/keystroke.

Keldaur's Avatar


Keldaur
03.15.2012 , 10:52 AM | #179
Quote: Originally Posted by MuNieK View Post
I believe you misunderstud me. Im not complaining on stimulating my brain while doing competetive pvp which is all about stimulating brain (fighting against human beings is much more demanding than fighting against AI - where additional abilities and piano playing once in a while might be kind of substitution for a real challenge which is combining reflex, wit and awaraness). Im complaining about need of using 5 million keybinds and another 5 million of modifier+keybinds all the time.

So your translation is missleaded.
But you really don't need thousand keybindings. I play a sentinel and a gunslinger. Both are the classes with more useful skills on game, and i still got more room on my "usual" keybindings for more stuff. I mean, instead of asking them to dumb it down, you have two option:

- Play a class dumbed down from a keybinding standpoint (like merc or sorc, if you don't believe me, do a spreadsheet simulating how you would configure your keys with those classes).

- Or get better.

Ch_Zero's Avatar


Ch_Zero
03.15.2012 , 10:54 AM | #180
This post is the exact opposite of what i think, they have the perfect amount of abilities right now.

It adds more complexity than WoW did.

if this game is anything like playing a piano you're doing it wrong.

Learn your class.