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Make playing melee less punishing, give incentive to use them!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Make playing melee less punishing, give incentive to use them!

vandana_'s Avatar


vandana_
03.13.2012 , 07:32 PM | #1
I'm a leader of casual 2 day raiding guild. That doesn't mean we do not approach raiding seriously - on the contrary, it means our raiding time is very precious.

To get the best chance on majority of bosses I will always pick ranged over melee. Playing melee in this game is so punishing. There isn't a SINGLE fight where melee have any advantage over ranged.

That needs to be addressed as one of the absolute top priorities in my opinion as it affects all melee raiders.


Here's a summary of my observations on how melees are screwed on almost every boss:

ETERNITY VAULT

Annihilation Droid XRR-3: Stomp causes damage, pushback causes lost DPS time, longer distance to hide behind the pillar. Ranged don't get affected by either of those mechanisms.

Gharj: Stomp causes damage and lost DPS time, ranged not affected.

Pylon: lets say it's OK (apart of again more dps time lost when part of panel pressing rotation)

Infernal Council: this boss is a joke anyway

Soa: a LOT of dps time lost when switching to mind traps

KARAGGA'S PALACE

Bonetrasher: ranged give you more options with placement, melee need to be near the boss and get hit by swipe much more often, they make almost constant DPS on the other hand which is a bit compensative but still ranged can be placed anywhere.

Jarg and Sorno: not that bad, can split the raid. still easier with all ranged.

Foreman Crusher: stomp

G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator: very melee unfriendly - can't place them on puzzle, they can't dps from upper platform, they often get hit by missles.

Karagga: nightmare for melee because of the oil patches being placed near the boss only. higher chance to be hit by odd mouse droid, if the get pulled to the person affected by the "white beam" they lose dps.


So 10 out of 10 bosses are easier with ranged DPS used, some to a greater degree than others. There is absolutely no reason to take melee to most fights and it must be changed as I want every single of my guild members to be able to enjoy the content and not tell them that because of our progression goals its better they sit the fight.

My suggestions: introduce punishing mechanisms affecting ranged only to the EVEN degree, re-think interrupt importance and giving interrupts to ranged, give melee more significant boss debuffs (to the point they will be required to beat the content).
V'ox

AnnexTrunks's Avatar


AnnexTrunks
03.13.2012 , 08:04 PM | #2
I agree that it needs to be addressed. I am a Level 50 Marauder if I try looking for a group for Ops or Flashpoints, I get ignored sometimes because the ranged healers want LESS people to heal. I usually have to start my own group and just convince people it can be done.

Maybe design a buff where a melee's attack range can be increased or something, I don't know.

I've noticed this since day one though, people don't want melee's as DPS. It sucks and it's a shame because I enjoy playing my class.
The Assassin of Time

Kriminal's Avatar


Kriminal
03.13.2012 , 08:39 PM | #3
ETERNITY VAULT

Annihilation Droid XRR-3: Not true, wrong melee position. Advantage on storm protocol as a melee since you don't need to interrupt your cast to move!

Gharj: Stomp causes damage yes, but no loss of dps. Healers can cover this easily. Maybe an advantage for ranged but no dps loss!

Pylon: /

Infernal Council: this boss is a joke anyway (free loot boss agree)

Soa: Yes and no. Most melee classes have other advantages on that fight. Shadows/*** can use force speed and resilience on lightning balls so they take NO dmg at all. Warrior/knights can't use their leap ability on boss that's stupid. Anyway doing this event is easy if it doesn't bug!

KARAGGA'S PALACE

Bonetrasher: ranged give you more options with placement, melee need to be near the boss and get hit by swipe much more often, they make almost constant DPS on the other hand which is a bit compensative but still ranged can be placed anywhere.
(Agree on that, but smart melee position far enough from the boss and don't take the swipe behind him.)

Jarg and Sorno: Indeed easier.

Foreman Crusher: This boss is a joke! And marauders/sentinel can give the speed buff so frenzy is a joke

G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator: this fight is indeed impossible with a melee heavy group

Karagga: This fight is easier for melee.. On the side of the boss they get hit by nothing! It's the tank that is spreading the pools around the room. If melee can't reach the boss. Tank is failing. Ranged get's alot of interrupt from spikes. Where melee just takes the dmg.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.

RichyYoung's Avatar


RichyYoung
03.13.2012 , 08:55 PM | #4
I agree, my main is level 50 sentinal and im now having to level a commando due to this bias towards ranged. Unfortunatly it means to be competitive when it comes to picking an ops team even in my own guild i will get bumped for a ranged DPS as theres no attacks which punish ranged but theres big penaltys for melee.

I dont know what else to say i cant use my sentinal in PVP as it is a slaughter agasint lightning, and i get penailtys agasint me verses boss in PVE. It sucks.

I love melee and light sabers but im going to have to just keep leveling this alt and will simply deafult to it until melee gets adressed.

Shlamorel's Avatar


Shlamorel
03.14.2012 , 12:49 AM | #5
You may have a point - just wanted to throw a few tips out there for you on these two points you made. This has helped my guild a lot.

Quote: Originally Posted by vandana_ View Post
Annihilation Droid XRR-3: Stomp causes damage, pushback causes lost DPS time, longer distance to hide behind the pillar. Ranged don't get affected by either of those mechanisms.
Our guild doesn't run behind pillars for this fight; we stack up on the melee and AoE heal during the missle barrage. This actually increases the raid's DPS and helps us beat enrage timer on nightmare/hard modes. Given this strategy, it's actually advantageous to have a good amount of melee as they get to keep dpsing and don't have to spend time running in.

Also, if DPS are on the side of the boss and tanks are in front of him and on his opposite side where melee are, melee won't get affected by knockback.

Quote:
Gharj: Stomp causes damage and lost DPS time, ranged not affected.
We do similar strategy for this as the annihilator; for the stomps we allow the melee to stay in and have our healers toss aoe heals mostly on melee (occasionally aoe heal goes out to ranged). Again, this helps us beat the enrage timers.

Granted, in this scenario, having melee isn't any "better" than ranged, but I don't find that melee for us are punished - we just heal through it and the dps are disadvantaged then.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just tossing out that maybe your guild can consider a bit different strategizing to allow people to play the classes/roles they want. We had a lot of melee dps in our guild when we started SWTOR and rather than making people reroll classes/specs they didn't want, we just accomodated our strategies to match our roster.
Shlamorel Sta'raeth - Jedi Seer
Dragonbrand
------------
I vow to try and respond in a constructive and positive manner

Roxinius's Avatar


Roxinius
03.14.2012 , 01:03 AM | #6
i really see no problem on any fight as melee bonethasher maybe because of some of his retarded movements as a tank with off spec dps as veng i've never had problems on Karagga or the first boss in ev if your melle are getting knocked back they should stop being idiots and get in the right position

Atthasit's Avatar


Atthasit
03.14.2012 , 01:52 AM | #7
Make ranged damage decrease with distance, with full damage dealt only at melee range. Ranged DPS will still have their ranged utility for fights like Fabricator, but from a pure DPS point of view leaders won't have to tell melee DPS to feck off anymore.

vandana_'s Avatar


vandana_
03.14.2012 , 02:45 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Kriminal View Post
ETERNITY VAULT

Annihilation Droid XRR-3: Not true, wrong melee position. Advantage on storm protocol as a melee since you don't need to interrupt your cast to move!

Gharj: Stomp causes damage yes, but no loss of dps. Healers can cover this easily. Maybe an advantage for ranged but no dps loss!

Pylon: /

Infernal Council: this boss is a joke anyway (free loot boss agree)

Soa: Yes and no. Most melee classes have other advantages on that fight. Shadows/*** can use force speed and resilience on lightning balls so they take NO dmg at all. Warrior/knights can't use their leap ability on boss that's stupid. Anyway doing this event is easy if it doesn't bug!

KARAGGA'S PALACE

Bonetrasher: ranged give you more options with placement, melee need to be near the boss and get hit by swipe much more often, they make almost constant DPS on the other hand which is a bit compensative but still ranged can be placed anywhere.
(Agree on that, but smart melee position far enough from the boss and don't take the swipe behind him.)

Jarg and Sorno: Indeed easier.

Foreman Crusher: This boss is a joke! And marauders/sentinel can give the speed buff so frenzy is a joke

G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator: this fight is indeed impossible with a melee heavy group

Karagga: This fight is easier for melee.. On the side of the boss they get hit by nothing! It's the tank that is spreading the pools around the room. If melee can't reach the boss. Tank is failing. Ranged get's alot of interrupt from spikes. Where melee just takes the dmg.
You are not seeing the real problem here. I can ease my statement and agree that on (rare) occasions melee can have their advantages and with cautious play you can beat the bosses with them in the group. But if you have all-ranged group you can ignore many mechanisms of the fights or very simply avoid them with spreading and they are plain easier.

Some replies to this thread already show you that finding a group for eg. marauder can be hard because why not take a ranged and don't care about them failing on mechanisms not affecting ranged at all.
V'ox

vandana_'s Avatar


vandana_
03.14.2012 , 02:48 AM | #9
reply removed
V'ox

KenseiMahou's Avatar


KenseiMahou
03.14.2012 , 03:08 AM | #10
It is rather amusing to see most of the replies amount to people agreeing with the OP even though, in their post, they disagree.

"Hey, you're wrong, and here's why." Except what they're saying really just says melee has to try harder than ranged to win in almost all of the boss fights.
I have one of every class and play them all. I give up on this class signature thing.