Marauders need to be balanced to Juggernauts.

well if it's a toss up that means they're pretty even so you can't complain about marauders heals.

Lol medium armour?

Ha ha, like armour makes a game breaker, when there are more abilities that make it totally pointless!!

Yeah...for 10 seconds.

Yes, it makes your potion more potent but that still doesn't make it anywhere near as good as other defensive cooldowns.

Imagine if Guarded by Force added all the damage it mitigated a few seconds earlier as soon as it ends. Not cool...

It's not totally pointless. Lots of attacks are mitigated by armor. I'm so tired of this whole "Heavy armor doesn't do anything at all" nonsense. why do you think a tank specced assassin is so much tougher than a burst specced assassin? because their stance gives them the equivalent of heavy armor.

I wasn't.



Operatives specced for heals are amazing. Operatives with 0 points in the healing tree have fairly pitiful heals. This is intentional, of course, and I'm not trying to make it sound like it should be changed. But we were comparing DPS Ops to Marauders, and in the longrun I consider DPS Op heals to be on par with Anni Marauder heals (aka Bloodthirst).

If that's true, why does my Focus Guardian in full BM Vindicator armor have the same HP as a full BM Marauder in medium armor, yet approx 30% less DPS? Heavy armor really doesn't mean **** in PvP. The talents and Endurance are what allow Assassins and Defense Guardians to tank, not the armor. There is far too little Endurance in the Vindicator set to make up for our mediocre DPS. One of two things needs to happen.

a. Increase the Endurance of Vindicator PvP gear to match the PvE gear
b. Increase DPS of Vigilance and Focus Guardians

Can't be bothered reading the entire thread..

Here's the laydown..

Marauders have all three trees to choose from.
In pvp all three have murderous potential depending on the player.


All of these Guardians/Juggernauts that are defending their damage, are Rage/Focus specced.



News flash.
Marauders can pull that kind of damage as SINGLE TARGET.

I'm going to increase the size of the next text to combat the ignorance:
6k Smash on 3 players is considered 18k damage on the charts. If you only received credit for one target every time you use smash, Vengeance/Vigilance would yield superior numbers by far at the end.

If you believe Guardian/Juggernaut damage output is fine, you're believing that tickling a few players and murdering one are the same thing. They aren't.
If you believe you're skilled for having 700k damage dealt on a Void Star as a Focus/Rage Guardian/Juggernaut, you haven't yet realized the futility in the scoreboard..


TL;DR:
Rage/Focus Juggernaut/Guardians do less damage and have less utility than a Vengeance/Vigilance Juggernaut/Guardian. Almost none of them realize this because they firmly believe that total damage dealt means something important.


A good Vengeance/Vigilance player can deal 50% to 100% more single target damage than a Rage/Focus player can. It's only unbelievable because most Juggernauts/Guardians actually think 700k damage is from more than:
5 Enemy Players on a door in Void Star:
Build Shockwave.
Pop trinkets/adrenals/charge for 10%.
Use Smash.
Around 6-7k damage on all targets.

Scoreboard Damage from that one attack: +30,000

700,000/30,000
A rage/focus has atleast 10 minutes to use a charged smash on 5 players 23 times.
That is only referring to smash, this is not including other abilities obviously.

How many times does a Rage/Focus smash in a WZ hit more than one target?

Lastly: If a Sentinel/Marauder does 500k damage in the end as Watchman-Combat/Annihilation-Carnage, that is so vastly superior to a Rage/Focus's 700k it's sad.
There are those that simply look at the numbers though..
They will never actually stop to think that a player's damage is so high as a Juggernaut/Guardian because most of their 6k hits were actually counted 2+ times.

It's definitely true that Maras put up more sustained dps on a single target than Juggs, and it's also true that Juggs 700k dps isn't equivalent to a Maras 500.

However what you fail to realize is that the Juggs dps is far more burst oriented and that can't be neglected.

I can tell you as a healer, I much prefer a Mara on a target or me than anticipating the 40% health swings on multiple targets when smash criticals.

IMO they are both amongst the best 3 or 4 specs in the game.

Yeah hp, but what % of damage does your armor mitigate?

And you don;t have 30% less dps. Well, maybe you do, but your class doesn't, it's a l2p issue.

no. totally wrong. We have:

force camo - used to escape but used a lot in an offsensive way- to confuse ppl by disappearing FOR 4 SECONDS! woa

cloak of pain- its nice but its also pretty hard to manage, IE to keep up as 1 KNOCKBACK and easy counter and the CD is wasted.


and Undying Rage - this is the one almost all over you QQ and then QQ some more about even those this too can be countered - AND keep in mind pretty much anyone being healed its OP when fighting those that ARE NOT being healed. so sorry a Mara in a premade totally curb stomped you because you didn't get any heals and he had a guilding doing nothing but healing pretty much JUST HIM.


That would be 3 defensives CDs force camo is more of a middle ground on how you use it.
Saber ward. all warriors get it

That would be 2 REAL defense CDs that maras have. And we don't have the option of jumping into a defensive Stance every time we grab the ball or are trying to just gaurd a door/turret until reinforcements come.

So your 5+ CD theory is just BuLLSh#! QQ ranting

Heavy armor does make a difference. Its always there.
Also you are more mobile with the fact that you have interceed.

All this marauder QQ is getting old. YOu should see our sub forums for the first 2 months of the game it was nothing but FIX MARA posts.

Now they make carnage more viable, make jugg and mara Rage spec equal, and ppl are starting to develop some better group tactics and its OMG MARA IS OP.

FUNNY how NO ONE saw it as OP for the first the 3 months.