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Balance the Force? What a terrible idea

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Balance the Force? What a terrible idea

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
03.10.2012 , 05:44 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Unutterable View Post
Willingly exterminated a room full of children who trusted him.

Exterminated a roomful of heads of state, likely leaving their cultures to plunge into chaos.

Presided over the annihilation of Alderaan.

Attempted to kill his extremely pregnant wife with virtually no provocation.

Pursued a campaign of terror and oppression against nonhumans.

Killed people at the slightest provocation with force choke, anyone around him without regard to rank or position.

But it's totally cool because he saved his son after watching him be tortured for several minutes.
Lucas: "You learn that Darth Vader isnt this monster. Hes a pathetic individual who made a pact with the Devil and lost. And hes trapped. Hes a sad, pathetic character, not a big evil monster. I mean, hes a monster in that hes turned to the Dark Side and hes serving a bad master and hes into power and hes lost a lot of his humanity. In that way, hes a monster, but beneath that, as Luke says in Return of the Jedi, early on, I know theres still good in you, I can sense it. Only through the love of his children and the compassion of his children, who believe in him, even though hes a monster, does he redeem himself."

Lucas: "If you start with Star Wars, then Vader's just the villain, and that's it. But you don't realize that he's a human being, that he's got problems you don't realize that he could have been saved, that he was tricked and can be resurrected."

Morticoccus's Avatar


Morticoccus
03.10.2012 , 08:04 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Lordgeneral View Post
As good as your paragraph was as i did enjoy it , palpatine wasn't hiding on a swamp, he would have soon became supreme chancellor as anakin did not play a role in his election, furthermore he would have probably found another jedi with complete mummy issues, manipulated them and boom with the clone army (which anakin did not have a role in creating or the decision of them either) no more jedi. When you think about it, what was anakins role O_O...

To a dark place this line of thought will take us.
His role was to screw Padme, to give birth to Luke Skywalker, the most overpowered Jedi of all time.

He has to be, since he's got vapor between his ears until episode 6, and he doesn't even come nowhere near intelligent enough until after the Yuuzan Vong invasion.
When all is said and done we're not the only ones who look at life this way: That's what the Sith lords say.
And if they'd ever change as that reminds to say. But every time I see them makes me wish I had a gun. If I thought that I was crazy well I guess I'd have more fun.

Wire_Razors's Avatar


Wire_Razors
03.10.2012 , 08:17 PM | #23
Darth Vader was an anti-hero in the same vein as Michael Moorcock's Elric.

Yeah, he's bad, and he's a bad-*ss, but he serves his purpose for the story. It's classic Joseph Campbell, The Hero's Journey. Fall from grace, and then redemption. Nothing more, nothing less. He brings balance by realizing his mistakes and correcting them (albeit on a completely CONTRIVED basis in the movies ... GL didn't lead up to that enough, but I can forgive him for the time-frame constraints of the movies back then).

If GL was to make those movies from scratch today (despite his inadequacies as a writer), I think he would have come up with a lot better premise and setup for 4-6. 1-3 would have been a lot more interesting (despite the cast and story), if 4-6 had been a lot less campy.

Imagine a Star Wars reboot, told in today's world. It would be a lot darker (as it would NEED to be for something of this nature), and a lot more driven by emotion and passion (a Sith's raison d'etre). And it would be much more adult, without so many campy lines (I can't watch the series anymore because everyone is spouting off every five seconds: I have a bad feeling about this.)

The Force, IMHO, is nothing more than Nature itself. Both the Jedi and the Sith perverted that natural progression, and Vader was the one to bring it back into balance. Unfortunately, in the EU, Luke recreates the Jedi Order, which will start the cascade to bringing back imbalance.

The grey jedi had it right: There is no light or dark side, so to speak: There is only the Force. (GL aside ... though as an author myself, I can perfectly understand him saying "The Light Side is ONLY the Force, and in balance. The dark side is a perversion of that." I don't agree with him on that at all, but it's his universe, and he can do with it what he pleases.")
Knights of the True Republic

Morticoccus's Avatar


Morticoccus
03.10.2012 , 08:28 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Wire_Razors View Post
Darth Vader was an anti-hero in the same vein as Michael Moorcock's Elric.

Yeah, he's bad, and he's a bad-*ss, but he serves his purpose for the story. It's classic Joseph Campbell, The Hero's Journey. Fall from grace, and then redemption. Nothing more, nothing less. He brings balance by realizing his mistakes and correcting them (albeit on a completely CONTRIVED basis in the movies ... GL didn't lead up to that enough, but I can forgive him for the time-frame constraints of the movies back then).

If GL was to make those movies from scratch today (despite his inadequacies as a writer), I think he would have come up with a lot better premise and setup for 4-6. 1-3 would have been a lot more interesting (despite the cast and story), if 4-6 had been a lot less campy.

Imagine a Star Wars reboot, told in today's world. It would be a lot darker (as it would NEED to be for something of this nature), and a lot more driven by emotion and passion (a Sith's raison d'etre). And it would be much more adult, without so many campy lines (I can't watch the series anymore because everyone is spouting off every five seconds: I have a bad feeling about this.)

The Force, IMHO, is nothing more than Nature itself. Both the Jedi and the Sith perverted that natural progression, and Vader was the one to bring it back into balance. Unfortunately, in the EU, Luke recreates the Jedi Order, which will start the cascade to bringing back imbalance.

The grey jedi had it right: There is no light or dark side, so to speak: There is only the Force. (GL aside ... though as an author myself, I can perfectly understand him saying "The Light Side is ONLY the Force, and in balance. The dark side is a perversion of that." I don't agree with him on that at all, but it's his universe, and he can do with it what he pleases.")
I've always said that the Jedi are future space druids.
When all is said and done we're not the only ones who look at life this way: That's what the Sith lords say.
And if they'd ever change as that reminds to say. But every time I see them makes me wish I had a gun. If I thought that I was crazy well I guess I'd have more fun.

Tarkastio's Avatar


Tarkastio
03.10.2012 , 09:26 PM | #25
True that, but when in lore has the Dark Side and the Light Side been balanced in any way?
First there are a lot of Jedi and a few Sith, and then a small amount of very powerful Sith against an aging goblin, an old kook, and a young farmer. And then the Sith get wiped out (again) leading to a new Jedi order...

Balance in the Force has probably really never existed, there is always more of one side or the other.
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ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
03.10.2012 , 09:28 PM | #26
Balance in the Force does not equal balance in numbers of Sith and Jedi.

The Force is far larger than those who use it.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

QuiJonPed's Avatar


QuiJonPed
03.12.2012 , 07:46 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Unutterable View Post

a pair of universe-equivalent neckbeards in a basement launching ddos attacks on Jedi sensitivity.

rofl!

That said, if Life represented the Light Side, and death the Dark Side. Life and Death are still part of a balance though. If you look at a natural habitat, it is held in balance through the predator/prey relationship.

Although yes, I do believe GL is a tool. *cough* Han shot first *cough*.

Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
03.12.2012 , 08:29 AM | #28
Probably a little late to this, but what the OP doesn't realize is "balance" actually means "complete and utter destruction of the Dark Side".

Quote: Originally Posted by QuiJonPed View Post
rofl!

That said, if Life represented the Light Side, and death the Dark Side. Life and Death are still part of a balance though. If you look at a natural habitat, it is held in balance through the predator/prey relationship.

Although yes, I do believe GL is a tool. *cough* Han shot first *cough*.
I guess you don't get the meaning behind "there is no death, there is the Force".

The Dark Side is, Canonically, a cancer in the Force. Its completely unnatural and the only way to restore balance is to destroy all of the Dark Side users. Hence, Palpatine dies and Vader is redeemed.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
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CelticMutt's Avatar


CelticMutt
03.12.2012 , 08:41 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Aximand View Post
Probably a little late to this, but what the OP doesn't realize is "balance" actually means "complete and utter destruction of the Dark Side".



I guess you don't get the meaning behind "there is no death, there is the Force".

The Dark Side is, Canonically, a cancer in the Force. Its completely unnatural and the only way to restore balance is to destroy all of the Dark Side users. Hence, Palpatine dies and Vader is redeemed.
No, it is not. Despite what Lucas wants us to think about his idea of balance, it is never seen anywhere in the movies. And by his own rules, the movies trump even his word.

Not to mention that as I stated earlier, it is blatant that all the writers of the EU disagree with him and consistently show that balance does not mean the Dark Side is wiped out. Canonically (for the EU for those who refuse to acknowledge it as canon), the Dark Side has existed just as long as the Light. That would not be true if it were a cancer.

Eillack's Avatar


Eillack
03.12.2012 , 08:57 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
One of the things about the prequels that always bothered me is the length. Why didnt the prequels end after Qui Gon asked the Jedi Council to train Anakin?

[snip]
You obviously don't know a thing about movies and money making....
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