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Bioware should be punished. There is no way they do not know this exists.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Bioware should be punished. There is no way they do not know this exists.
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

JidaiGeki's Avatar


JidaiGeki
03.08.2012 , 07:10 AM | #21
Quote:
2 kolto probe, get stimboost, fill energy, join combat > Recuperative Nanotech (26 energy with gear) > Kolto Injection (25 energy) > Surgical Probe (Free) > Kolto Injection (25 energy) > Surgical Probe (Free) > Renew Kolto Probe (15 energy) > Renew Rec Nanotech (26 energy) > KI (25) > SP (Free) > KI (25) > SP (Free) > Renew Kolto Probe > Renew Stimboost > KI (25) > SP (Free) > Renew Rec Nanotech .... repeat the cycle once more and I am down to 20 energy, not enough energy to recast KI... Diagnostic Scan? :P oops Diagnoctic Scan is not strong enough to keep anyone alive, and I don't have time to use it cause unlike Hard Mode or World bosses, enemy players do not have specific times to rest and refill energy, so Dia Scan is useless in PvP.
I should preface this with the fact that my char is currently level 35, not 50, so I can't speak for what it's like in HM's/50 PvP.

As for your insanely long rotation cycle: I never have to maintain a rotation for that long, continuously, in PvP, and I'm surprised if you do. Whilst you're healing your allies, your allies are attacking the enemy. If they fail you're dead/fleeing and if they succeed then they kill the enemies in the immediate vicinity, catching you a breather to recoup energy. I doubt that a sorc would able to maintain a 16-talent rotation without a significant drop in Force energy either. Again: not referring to PvE.

Quote:
I want to learn in which server this guy is playing, cause I also want to spank bunnies who don't target healers first and allow healing.
Did I not just give an example of being targeted above? If you're targeted, that's what cloaking screen/stuns/snares are for. There's no excuse for not getting away and repositioning until the heat is back on your tanks/DPS'ers, unless you're getting pounded on by multiple enemies.

Quote:
Right.... maybe as a 23/0/18 and you aren't going to top healing charts, otherwise I don't believe you.
Again, not coming at this as a 50. Maybe it will be a whole other story once I start hitting level-50 WZ's.

Xenthum's Avatar


Xenthum
03.08.2012 , 08:00 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by JidaiGeki View Post
I should preface this with the fact that my char is currently level 35, not 50, so I can't speak for what it's like in HM's/50 PvP.
You haven't even begun to PVP. You have no idea what it's like at all.
Good luck facing the same teams for days on end and being recognized, and appropriately focused, by an enemy interrupt/CC chain squad.
You have **** for mobility, bad healing when under interrupt pressure, and no defensive cooldowns beyond Vanish (no healing done or received for 10 seconds) and a 45s cd 2k shield.

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
Do Sorcerers/Sages have a zero energy cost ranged attack like Operatives/Scoundrels and Commando/Mercenary?
...the... the one that does 450 damage (if it crits?) and is dodged/deflected/absorbed?
Like... I don't get what you're trying to say here. No, they don't get an ability that will only ever be used for interrupting a capture. They have a spammable AOE pulse ability for that. They also get a pretty ****** instant AOE that does what Weakening Blast does for Lethality, but better, and for fewer talent points when they hybridize. Pretty BA if you ask me.

Riggz's Avatar


Riggz
03.08.2012 , 10:45 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by JidaiGeki View Post
I should preface this with the fact that my char is currently level 35, not 50, so I can't speak for what it's like in HM's/50 PvP.

As for your insanely long rotation cycle: I never have to maintain a rotation for that long, continuously, in PvP, and I'm surprised if you do. Whilst you're healing your allies, your allies are attacking the enemy. If they fail you're dead/fleeing and if they succeed then they kill the enemies in the immediate vicinity, catching you a breather to recoup energy. I doubt that a sorc would able to maintain a 16-talent rotation without a significant drop in Force energy either. Again: not referring to PvE.



Did I not just give an example of being targeted above? If you're targeted, that's what cloaking screen/stuns/snares are for. There's no excuse for not getting away and repositioning until the heat is back on your tanks/DPS'ers, unless you're getting pounded on by multiple enemies.



Again, not coming at this as a 50. Maybe it will be a whole other story once I start hitting level-50 WZ's.
If you are not a 50 you don't know what you are talking about
Urdnought Level 55 Operative
Urdonught Level 55 Scoundrel
<GRIM DETERMINATION>
<INFAMOUS>

CIKShock's Avatar


CIKShock
03.08.2012 , 10:47 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey,

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Smuggler.

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

Georg
That supposed to say "Consular" or am I missing something?

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
03.08.2012 , 10:51 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by CIKShock View Post
That supposed to say "Consular" or am I missing something?
Yes, he just made a mistake. Sith Happens.

Swampylol's Avatar


Swampylol
03.08.2012 , 10:54 AM | #26
Hang on a minuite..

Did a dev just post in the IA forum o_0

someone slap me, i'm sure i'm dreaming...

hrelas's Avatar


hrelas
03.08.2012 , 10:54 AM | #27
You are dumb.

Kyntari's Avatar


Kyntari
03.08.2012 , 11:08 AM | #28
I like how the rational posts on disparity between Op vs Sorc (or Sco vs Sage) go unanswered, while Georg chooses to respond directly to this quasi-paranoid rant with what amounts to 'l2p noob'

Thanks
Lithann | Operative | <Pkers> | P5

LeperJack's Avatar


LeperJack
03.08.2012 , 11:26 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey,

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.
I appreciate that the snarky response is to someone who was rude (to be kind in my description) but to those of us who aren't acting like *******es, could we get perhaps a better explanation?

Quote:
The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular.
(fixed)

I can appreciate that the comparison between classes and advanced classes that are not mirrors (or even ones that are!) will never truly be a strict 1:1 comparison. However, there does seem to be a sizable disparity between the two.

Not to the point of comparing apple:apple, but in "large handful of apples:large sack of oranges."

Quote:
Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.
I appreciate variety in class design. Really, I do. I also understand how difficult it can be to provide variety along with semi-equal ability--it can be a daunting and frustrating task.

On the other hand, the differences I see between Scoundrel/Operative performance (healing, DPS, and utility) and Sage/Inquisitor performance are... excessive, and obviously weighted to be not in favor of the Sc/Op.

I know you've got plenty to do, but a lot of us would really appreciate a straightforward answer to some of the questions that have been posed politely (i.e. not by someone calling for you all to be "punished." What does that mean, anyhow? Spanked? I mean, you might be into that. If you are, let me know, I know this cute little nurse, and... yeah.) such as:

Do you feel "Viable" is the same thing as "Desirable" or "Fun?"

Do you think the addition of a stealth mechanic (which is all but non-functional in endgame PvE) is a fair trade for the plethora of utility, control, ability and sheer throughput available by choosing to select any class other than the Operative/Scoundrel to perform either as a healer or DPS?

I understand that certain amounts of compromise are necessary in a design process, but do you feel that Operatives and Scoundrels genuinely fall into the "5%" that's been mentioned as the general margin for effectiveness?

Thanks,
Jack.
"I think I know enough of hate / To say that for destruction ice / Is also great / And would suffice."
--Robert Frost

Coldin's Avatar


Coldin
03.08.2012 , 11:30 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey,

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Smuggler.

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

Georg
The question I have is...why? 3 of the 4 base classes all have regenerating energy. 2 of them have a system where energy regen diminishes as energy level falls. One class has a constant energy regen that can be boosted by talents and skills. It seems to needlessly complicate class balance.