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Bioware should be punished. There is no way they do not know this exists.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Bioware should be punished. There is no way they do not know this exists.
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Belly's Avatar


Belly
03.14.2012 , 02:05 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey,

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular.

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

Georg


edit: fixed a typo where "Consular" should have appeared!
Zing!
Larcen 50(ish) Scoundrel Scrapper/Sawbones "They see me rollin...they hatin. They whining and sayin that I need some nerfin"
The Progenitor
And loads and loads of alts

Holinyx's Avatar


Holinyx
03.14.2012 , 02:05 PM | #252
well all know Bioware has a magic wand that they can wave and instantly fix every bug, class issue, and give us all the new amazing content instantly.

so why don't they do it?

i mean, come on, this game has been out since LAST YEAR !!11!


wave the fix everything magic wand bioware, you're my only hope.



(this post is for entertainment purposes only directed at people who complain about everything)
Not all Bounty Hunters die screaming like a 4 yr old girl.

Coldin's Avatar


Coldin
03.14.2012 , 02:24 PM | #253
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
Hey everyone; class balance conversations can be inflammatory and easily spin out of control. I'd like to ask everyone to keep on topic here and not allow the conversation to become too vitriolic.

Georg has posted multiple times on class balance and our views on the discussion of class balancing. As a general rule we don't comment too much on changes before those changes are playable, usually on the Public Test Server. Changes have been made to Imperial Agents including Operatives in Game Update 1.2, as Georg has mentioned before. You'll be able to see those on PTS before too long; we'll probably provide more detail on the rationale behind those changes after we see some feedback from yourselves based on PTS play. (And we would highly encourage you to play 1.2 on PTS. We're already getting early feedback from in-house testing, but the more we get, the better.)

No class in The Old Republic is being 'ignored', but every class is examined and balanced with an eye to the overall balance of the game. As many of us play one class to the exclusion of others, it's easy sometimes to think that your class is being unfairly treated. It's not a deliberate strategy. Any suggestion that a class is being deliberately ignored in favor of another class (or faction) is unfair, at best.

The development team read the Forums and act on feedback here (as well as many other sources, including a lot of data from within the game). Your feedback has helped shape Game Update 1.2 and it will definitely help shape the game in the future.
Thank you Stephen. This was the kind of post I was hoping to see. I do hope 1.2 gets on the PTS sooner than later though. Maybe this week?


Edit: Actually, as someone else mentioned, it's going to be difficult for me to really test out the changes since I only have a level 10 scoundrel on the PTS. Unfortunately, not many of my guild was interested in signing up for testing, since that involves downloading 20 gigabytes to test content.

Wren_Atticus's Avatar


Wren_Atticus
03.14.2012 , 02:37 PM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
Hey everyone; class balance conversations can be inflammatory and easily spin out of control. I'd like to ask everyone to keep on topic here and not allow the conversation to become too vitriolic.

Georg has posted multiple times on class balance and our views on the discussion of class balancing. As a general rule we don't comment too much on changes before those changes are playable, usually on the Public Test Server. Changes have been made to Imperial Agents including Operatives in Game Update 1.2, as Georg has mentioned before. You'll be able to see those on PTS before too long; we'll probably provide more detail on the rationale behind those changes after we see some feedback from yourselves based on PTS play. (And we would highly encourage you to play 1.2 on PTS. We're already getting early feedback from in-house testing, but the more we get, the better.)

No class in The Old Republic is being 'ignored', but every class is examined and balanced with an eye to the overall balance of the game. As many of us play one class to the exclusion of others, it's easy sometimes to think that your class is being unfairly treated. It's not a deliberate strategy. Any suggestion that a class is being deliberately ignored in favor of another class (or faction) is unfair, at best.

The development team read the Forums and act on feedback here (as well as many other sources, including a lot of data from within the game). Your feedback has helped shape Game Update 1.2 and it will definitely help shape the game in the future.
Georg's comment was regarding healing. Sadly, because Scoundrel/Operatives share both a healing and a DPS tree, commenting on one of those is grouped as addressed the AC as a whole and it isn't.

The nerfs impacted DPS and per Georg's comments in that interview, he comes off as laissez-faire with his attitude regarding Smugglers and Imperial Agents. He writes off the fact that we are the lowest played classes being due to not being iconic and not shooting "lightning from our fingertips". He ignores the fact that any reason someone would play that class, healing or stealth or ranged, can be done better by one of the other class/AC combos.

Addressing healing does not address the class as a whole, nor does it address the AC as a whole. The Operative/Scoundrel DPS community has some very legitimate concerns regarding our abilities, or lack thereof, and those do seem to be getting ignored.
"You've been Synergized. Have a nice day!"
Wrangler <Synergy> - Scoundrel - Infinite Empire Server

Brightglade's Avatar


Brightglade
03.14.2012 , 02:58 PM | #255
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
You'll be able to see those on PTS before too long; we'll probably provide more detail on the rationale behind those changes after we see some feedback from yourselves based on PTS play. (And we would highly encourage you to play 1.2 on PTS. We're already getting early feedback from in-house testing, but the more we get, the better.)
Are you going to add Level Up NPCs and Free Gear vendors so that players can get 50 and do some testing? This is something LOTRO did/does, so that players can test different level ranges and areas of their game.
"When faced with a choice between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before."
Mae West

Calimwulf's Avatar


Calimwulf
03.14.2012 , 03:02 PM | #256
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
Hey everyone; class balance conversations can be inflammatory and easily spin out of control. I'd like to ask everyone to keep on topic here and not allow the conversation to become too vitriolic.

Georg has posted multiple times on class balance and our views on the discussion of class balancing. As a general rule we don't comment too much on changes before those changes are playable, usually on the Public Test Server. Changes have been made to Imperial Agents including Operatives in Game Update 1.2, as Georg has mentioned before. You'll be able to see those on PTS before too long; we'll probably provide more detail on the rationale behind those changes after we see some feedback from yourselves based on PTS play. (And we would highly encourage you to play 1.2 on PTS. We're already getting early feedback from in-house testing, but the more we get, the better.)

No class in The Old Republic is being 'ignored', but every class is examined and balanced with an eye to the overall balance of the game. As many of us play one class to the exclusion of others, it's easy sometimes to think that your class is being unfairly treated. It's not a deliberate strategy. Any suggestion that a class is being deliberately ignored in favor of another class (or faction) is unfair, at best.

The development team read the Forums and act on feedback here (as well as many other sources, including a lot of data from within the game). Your feedback has helped shape Game Update 1.2 and it will definitely help shape the game in the future.
Sir, is there any chance we can get a character copy to PTS server for testing?
"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Calimwulf's Avatar


Calimwulf
03.14.2012 , 03:05 PM | #257
Quote: Originally Posted by Wren_Atticus View Post
Georg's comment was regarding healing. Sadly, because Scoundrel/Operatives share both a healing and a DPS tree, commenting on one of those is grouped as addressed the AC as a whole and it isn't.

The nerfs impacted DPS and per Georg's comments in that interview, he comes off as laissez-faire with his attitude regarding Smugglers and Imperial Agents. He writes off the fact that we are the lowest played classes being due to not being iconic and not shooting "lightning from our fingertips". He ignores the fact that any reason someone would play that class, healing or stealth or ranged, can be done better by one of the other class/AC combos.

Addressing healing does not address the class as a whole, nor does it address the AC as a whole. The Operative/Scoundrel DPS community has some very legitimate concerns regarding our abilities, or lack thereof, and those do seem to be getting ignored.
Dude, until you see the patch notes, you are making an assumption that nothing else was tweaked, and I think we all know what happens when you assume things.
"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Ich_Bin's Avatar


Ich_Bin
03.14.2012 , 03:25 PM | #258
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
Hey everyone; class balance conversations can be inflammatory and easily spin out of control. I'd like to ask everyone to keep on topic here and not allow the conversation to become too vitriolic.

Georg has posted multiple times on class balance and our views on the discussion of class balancing. As a general rule we don't comment too much on changes before those changes are playable, usually on the Public Test Server. Changes have been made to Imperial Agents including Operatives in Game Update 1.2, as Georg has mentioned before. You'll be able to see those on PTS before too long; we'll probably provide more detail on the rationale behind those changes after we see some feedback from yourselves based on PTS play. (And we would highly encourage you to play 1.2 on PTS. We're already getting early feedback from in-house testing, but the more we get, the better.)

No class in The Old Republic is being 'ignored', but every class is examined and balanced with an eye to the overall balance of the game. As many of us play one class to the exclusion of others, it's easy sometimes to think that your class is being unfairly treated. It's not a deliberate strategy. Any suggestion that a class is being deliberately ignored in favor of another class (or faction) is unfair, at best.

The development team read the Forums and act on feedback here (as well as many other sources, including a lot of data from within the game). Your feedback has helped shape Game Update 1.2 and it will definitely help shape the game in the future.
Thank you for communicating with us. I hope to see more of it in the future
Quote: Originally Posted by Ewgal View Post
The trouble with PvP... fact and fantasy blur into what the player does believe.

Fearine's Avatar


Fearine
03.14.2012 , 03:28 PM | #259
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post

No class in The Old Republic is being 'ignored', but every class is examined and balanced with an eye to the overall balance of the game.
Actually this is the one which frightens me.
Having in mind how exactly you have been "interested" for us since beta can you ignore us this time please?

Gnite's Avatar


Gnite
03.14.2012 , 04:03 PM | #260
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
Hey everyone; class balance conversations can be inflammatory and easily spin out of control. I'd like to ask everyone to keep on topic here and not allow the conversation to become too vitriolic.

Georg has posted multiple times on class balance and our views on the discussion of class balancing. As a general rule we don't comment too much on changes before those changes are playable, usually on the Public Test Server. Changes have been made to Imperial Agents including Operatives in Game Update 1.2, as Georg has mentioned before. You'll be able to see those on PTS before too long; we'll probably provide more detail on the rationale behind those changes after we see some feedback from yourselves based on PTS play. (And we would highly encourage you to play 1.2 on PTS. We're already getting early feedback from in-house testing, but the more we get, the better.)

No class in The Old Republic is being 'ignored', but every class is examined and balanced with an eye to the overall balance of the game. As many of us play one class to the exclusion of others, it's easy sometimes to think that your class is being unfairly treated. It's not a deliberate strategy. Any suggestion that a class is being deliberately ignored in favor of another class (or faction) is unfair, at best.

The development team read the Forums and act on feedback here (as well as many other sources, including a lot of data from within the game). Your feedback has helped shape Game Update 1.2 and it will definitely help shape the game in the future.
how are we supposed to test these changes on the pts if you refuse to give us character copy/premades or just an npc that gives our new character a ton of exp?