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Bioware should be punished. There is no way they do not know this exists.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Imperial Agent > Operative
Bioware should be punished. There is no way they do not know this exists.
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

belialle's Avatar


belialle
03.13.2012 , 12:01 PM | #231
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiyoma View Post
Georg isn't a mod. He's a lead developer. Big difference.

Secondly, stop trying to compare Agent healers to Sorc healers - they are not the same. They do not play the same. They are actually suited for different things, or intended anyway. Bioware has officially acknowledged at this point that Agent/Smuggler healers need a little love.

It says a lot to me that the lead developer chose to post a snarky response to an OP like this, rather than responding to one of the many, more reasonable, critiques of operative healing.

I just found out about this thread, and I have to say that it really took the wind out of my sails to see Zoeller's post. How disappointing. His was only the 7th developer response on our forums here. Rather than post something useful, the dev not only chose to respond to a fairly worthless thread, but he chose to post a snarky troll response?

Maybe I am playing the wrong game, after all.

Pagy's Avatar


Pagy
03.13.2012 , 12:11 PM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey,

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular.

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

Georg


edit: fixed a typo where "Consular" should have appeared!
the moment you clowns claimed that all healing classes are equally viable, you lost all credibility. you aren't perfectly aware of much tbh and shows with the utter lack of interest or posts in the agent/smuggler forums.

oh well, your loss, i've already cancelled.

Kaosinme's Avatar


Kaosinme
03.13.2012 , 12:16 PM | #233
come on.. lets be realistic here. if you were going through a forum full of posts, are you going to respond to them, especially if they made sense? No - there's no need. you add nothing to the conversation. You read, nod at it, and move along to the next post.

When you see a post that makes no sense, its easier to get riled up and actually post something. *shrug* i don't think what he choose to reply to indicates anything other than normal human behavior.

hmm.. guess i'm human too- i'm posting to yours because i disagree, whereas i normally never respond to an agreeable post.

belialle's Avatar


belialle
03.13.2012 , 01:43 PM | #234
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaosinme View Post
come on.. lets be realistic here. if you were going through a forum full of posts, are you going to respond to them, especially if they made sense? No - there's no need. you add nothing to the conversation. You read, nod at it, and move along to the next post.

When you see a post that makes no sense, its easier to get riled up and actually post something. *shrug* i don't think what he choose to reply to indicates anything other than normal human behavior.

Except that it also shows a lapse in judgement in this case. If I post something snarky on these forums, it doesn't carry much weight. I'm not employed by BW, and I'm certainly not the lead designer. I don't need to maintain a semblance of professionalism here. However, when I am acting in a professional capacity, you had better believe that I think twice before speaking, and I have to bite my tongue a lot. Why? Because my words carry more weight when I'm at work, and I know that my behavior reflects on the company that I represent -- both my employer and the people who work under me.

Vakyoom's Avatar


Vakyoom
03.13.2012 , 02:09 PM | #235
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaosinme View Post
come on.. lets be realistic here. if you were going through a forum full of posts, are you going to respond to them, especially if they made sense? No - there's no need. you add nothing to the conversation. You read, nod at it, and move along to the next post.

When you see a post that makes no sense, its easier to get riled up and actually post something. *shrug* i don't think what he choose to reply to indicates anything other than normal human behavior.

hmm.. guess i'm human too- i'm posting to yours because i disagree, whereas i normally never respond to an agreeable post.

You truly think it's Normal Human Behavior to deflect questions with ******** answers that are meant to make the reciever of said comment look stupid? People who give thought out points... They've posted 50+ times on other class forums but operatives get a few "hush hush, don't worry we still care kind of" posts and one that's all "are you stupid? they're different classes... i mean, you can read right??"

It's offensive to have those things said and it's even more offensive to receive a post to this thread, when they could've posted about any other well put thread. This one isn't exactly optimal for a dev to make their point...

This whole thing is just insulting, obviously they have plans but they feel like giving every other class pep talks and assurances except for telling us "we're fine, l2p".
Canderous Ordo - PvE East
Vakyoom -- Pureblood Sith Marauder
Chalky'White -- Fatty Chiss Operative
Should've brought more Sages imo

Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
03.13.2012 , 02:39 PM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey,

...

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular.

...

Georg


I wouldnt go slamming a player post with your claim that inquisitors and consulars are mirrors, when there are several problems with them, where the mirrored classes are different and not functioning as mirrors (project vs shock, etc.) Its about as silly as posting that the faction imbalance in this game isnt that big of a deal at the guild summit. I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that one. The faction imbalance in this game is huge, given the IP, and is TOTALLY a result of piss poor design and planning on BWs part.

In any case, your post and its condescension are COMPLETELY inappropriate for a BW employee. Your attitude toward customers is poor and if I was in your management chain, I would have nerfed your posting priviledges on the public forums way back in beta, where you exhibited the exact same attitude in the forums on numerous occasions, and even quoted Nancy McIntyre's INFAMOUS line when Lucas was trying to defend the NGE amidst one of the biggest backlashes in MMO history. You need to take PR classes.
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...

IronJelly's Avatar


IronJelly
03.13.2012 , 02:57 PM | #237
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyvim View Post
I wouldnt go slamming a player post with your claim that inquisitors and consulars are mirrors, when there are several problems with them, where the mirrored classes are different and not functioning as mirrors (project vs shock, etc.) Its about as silly as posting that the faction imbalance in this game isnt that big of a deal at the guild summit. I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that one. The faction imbalance in this game is huge, given the IP, and is TOTALLY a result a piss poor design and planning on BWs part.

In any case, your post and its condescension are COMPLETELY inappropriate for a BW employee. Your attitude toward customers is poor and if I was in your management chain, I would have nerfed your posting priviledges on the public forums way back in beta. You need to take PR classes.
You're joking, right? I'll just assume this post was for a laugh on your part.

If you believe the design work is so poor, stop playing. Can I have your stuff? I, and many other people like the game, and only have a few minor problems. In fact, you have posting priviledges here, so you must be paying for the game also.

The visual effect of a power is meaningless compared to it's numbers in the game. if two powers which are supposed to be mirrors have different visual effects, but the same cast times, same damage, and the same cost, they're the same power. Let's compare Disturbance and Lightning Strike, since they're early powers a lot of people are familiar with. With one, the jedi charges it up, and then lets go, and the enemy appears to just sort of be violently assaulted by power. with the other, the sith charges it up, with lightning at their hands, and then lets go, and lightning strikes from them to the enemy. Very different, right?

But let's look at both powers (i'm using Torhead, because it's easy). here's the description of disturbance:
Quote:
Disturbance
Activation: 1.5 secs
Force: 30
Range: 30 m
Fires a blast of telekinetic energy at the target, dealing 698 - 762 kinetic damage.
and here's Lightning Strike:
Quote:
Lightning Strike
Activation: 1.5 secs
Force: 30
Range: 30 m
Fires a charge of lightning at the target, deals 698 - 762 energy damage.
Which one is doing more damage? Which one has a longer cast time? Higher range? oh, right. Which one comes at an earlier level? RIGHT! neither. these are mirrored powers. If the devs wanted, they could change the animation of the power so that you unzipped your pants and pissed on the enemy. If the damage, charge time, aquisition level, and talents related to this are the same, well, they're the same. I'm pretty sure there isn't a disparity between the factions that isn't player-created.

In any case, your post and its condescension are COMPLETELY inappropriate for a fan of the game. Your attitude toward Bioware is poor and if I was in BW's management, I would have removed your speaking priviledges on the public forums way back in beta. You need to take anger management classes.
I am a Farker. What that means to you is that I speak my mind. If the above post was offensive to you for any reason, be glad that I won't even know if you ignore me. Welcome to the internet.

Xaearth's Avatar


Xaearth
03.13.2012 , 03:34 PM | #238
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaosinme View Post
come on.. lets be realistic here. if you were going through a forum full of posts, are you going to respond to them, especially if they made sense? No - there's no need. you add nothing to the conversation. You read, nod at it, and move along to the next post.

When you see a post that makes no sense, its easier to get riled up and actually post something. *shrug* i don't think what he choose to reply to indicates anything other than normal human behavior.

hmm.. guess i'm human too- i'm posting to yours because i disagree, whereas i normally never respond to an agreeable post.
I use to be optimistic about SWTOR developers having a clue about their classes, but then I took a Surgical Probe to an old knee injury.

And it didn't burst.
"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with BioWare."
~ SWTOR Update 1.2: Legacy

Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
03.13.2012 , 03:37 PM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by Pagy View Post
the moment you clowns claimed that all healing classes are equally viable, you lost all credibility. you aren't perfectly aware of much tbh and shows with the utter lack of interest or posts in the agent/smuggler forums.

oh well, your loss, i've already cancelled.
lol,

rage unsub - A movement to attack MMO's since 2004.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
03.13.2012 , 04:24 PM | #240
Quote: Originally Posted by IronJelly View Post
You're joking, right? I'll just assume this post was for a laugh on your part...

But let's look at both powers (i'm using Torhead, because it's easy). here's the description of disturbance:


and here's Lightning Strike:
I wish I was joking. And if 1.2 doesnt provide much of what this game should have had at launch then I wont be the only one out of here. Of course "deprecating" Ilum instead of providing a viable pvp endgame planet isnt exactly progress for a game with 100s millions of dollars and 5 years of development behind it.

Try the same little analogy with project and shock, in the game - where it matters, not from internet postings of tooltips, and tell me all about how the mirrors are so well done...NO one ever claimed disturbance and lightning strike were off, btw. Project and shock were the example I gave, but jumping to disturbance and lightning strike, when no one mentioned them, was pure genius, but different.

And as a fan of star wars and a paying customer of this game, I am MORE than within my right to opine about the nature of dev comments. See there is a difference between paying customer, and representative of a company that wants that customer to keep paying. Something you and Georg Nancy seem to be incapable of grasping. I am certainly not the only customer that found that dev post out of bounds. Dev communication is sparse enough without our money going to fund Georg's inner troll.

Being a fan of this game is great, hope that works out for you. If it means that you get to slurp up whatever crap some egotistical dev posts, then enjoy...I'm sure that will work out wonderfully for you too, just like Ilum has worked so well, or, meh why even bother, a dialogue with you is pointless.
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...