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Update 1.2 Class Balances and the Nitty Gritty Details

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Update 1.2 Class Balances and the Nitty Gritty Details
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Superastro's Avatar


Superastro
03.14.2012 , 05:13 PM | #201
Oh" FOUND one!
My English is bad.

Hermagaddon's Avatar


Hermagaddon
03.14.2012 , 06:54 PM | #202
Now i have to be honest and say that i have no clue about the damage output of a mara, The only one i have faced so far is a complete idiot. There simply arent that many on my server it seems.

However, from the little i have seen and knowing it can be better i only really have one thing to say. Mara's out there, please roll an assain and make it dps specced. Then come back and say that the classes are fine as they are.

In pve a dps specced assa is... well... meh.. But they have light armor, and unless all the dps assa's i have seen so far are complete idiots aswell... then it does less damage then a mara. Considerably less. And *** said, the few mara's ive seen could probably do better if they knew what to do.

An dps specced assa simply has nothing. Little armor, Not that great damage. Which you would think the less armor you got the more damage you do.

Now, do i think the mara is overpowered? Not really, i would say the assasin is under powered. In dps spec at least. As for the tank spec. There are a few changes i would love to see. A little bit more armor. Greater range on Wither and mass mind control. Perhaps an extra stun. But overall... even with the way the classes are now, I wouldnt want to trade my tankassin in for any other class. And mara's, you guys arent the only one's who need to use more then 4 buttons.

Herm.

kainsec's Avatar


kainsec
03.14.2012 , 07:04 PM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by Hermagaddon View Post
Now i have to be honest and say that i have no clue about the damage output of a mara, The only one i have faced so far is a complete idiot. There simply arent that many on my server it seems.

However, from the little i have seen and knowing it can be better i only really have one thing to say. Mara's out there, please roll an assain and make it dps specced. Then come back and say that the classes are fine as they are.

In pve a dps specced assa is... well... meh.. But they have light armor, and unless all the dps assa's i have seen so far are complete idiots aswell... then it does less damage then a mara. Considerably less. And *** said, the few mara's ive seen could probably do better if they knew what to do.

An dps specced assa simply has nothing. Little armor, Not that great damage. Which you would think the less armor you got the more damage you do.

Now, do i think the mara is overpowered? Not really, i would say the assasin is under powered. In dps spec at least. As for the tank spec. There are a few changes i would love to see. A little bit more armor. Greater range on Wither and mass mind control. Perhaps an extra stun. But overall... even with the way the classes are now, I wouldnt want to trade my tankassin in for any other class. And mara's, you guys arent the only one's who need to use more then 4 buttons.

Herm.
I have both and have played them both in Ops and Pvp. Sin damage is very similar in glass cannon spec vs mara anni (I would give a slight edge in damage to Mara but as devs stated maras are suppose to have a small damage edge since they give up all the other advantages of having a secondary role) just uses a different delivery method. The only major issue (mind you not the only issue but the glaring one in the room) with Sin is survivability in Deception spec is not worth having the worst survivability in the game. Maras have much better survivability to do similar damage.

In Pve where survivability is not an issue and they perform quite well and force shroud, better CC, and stealth sap makes life much easier in a lot of places.
level 50 Sith Assassin
level 50 Mara
Member of Shadow Empire

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
03.14.2012 , 08:50 PM | #204
Quote: Originally Posted by Superastro View Post
Oh" FOUND one!
You can always tell the false min/maxers when they think there's only one way to do something, only one kind of hardware that will work, or only their way or the highway.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

subrosian's Avatar


subrosian
03.14.2012 , 09:06 PM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by Hermagaddon View Post
Now i have to be honest and say that i have no clue about the damage output of a mara, The only one i have faced so far is a complete idiot. There simply arent that many on my server it seems.
Good Maras have high sustained DPS and strong survival CDs. This combination makes them imbalanced because they completely ignore class dynamics in warzones. Maras just have to think about overall tactics, unlike every other class they don't have a specific "bad fight" or "fight length" to shoot for.

Being completely removed from the metagame is dangerous, and it encourages serious PVPers to run heavy on Maras as they are the "counter" to every other class. It's like playing rock-paper-scissors-shotgun.



Quote: Originally Posted by Hermagaddon View Post
An dps specced assa simply has nothing. Little armor, Not that great damage. Which you would think the less armor you got the more damage you do.
Deception Assassins are in an awkward place right now in PVP. They aren't an out-of-stealth class and their best DPS abilities are built on staying alive... with a class that doesn't really like to stay alive. Part of the reason Darkness has become prominent is because of that problem.

The bugged abilities just exacerbate the situation... but the Mara is also a problem, as right now it's a hard counter to non-Darkness Assassins. If you don't play Darkness, you won't survive comps that run Mara-heavy.
subrosian
<Epitome>
epitomeraiding.com

Kuuraien's Avatar


Kuuraien
03.15.2012 , 04:03 AM | #206
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post

So:

Yes, I want you to have that information, but I want everyone to get it at the same time, when it is ready, and I want you to get the full picture.
Thats what she said.


.... no really man, i think i read this 3 times already since i signed into these forums, is this a catchphrase?

Sorry just a joke. But yeah ur right, things that arent final arent final, people should only start blabbering about Y and X after the nerf is final, tou somehow that doesnt sound realistic when i hear it come out of my own mouth, after all most final decissions have been totally final and never seen rollbacks when it comes to nerfs except under some extreme conditions, most of the time the only reason a nerf doesnt take place is because of the outcry denying the need for such nerf before such becomes public, still, it didnt come out of the devs's mouths, but they are the devs, and its up to them what to nerf, and up to us to report what needs a balance check...

People just have to learn to deal with the reality of the game, everybody hurts, nerf hurts, everybody nerfs.

Tempsticks's Avatar


Tempsticks
03.15.2012 , 12:23 PM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by Dharagada View Post
Let's clarify something.

Marauders/Sentinels are one of the most (maybe even arguably the most) powerful 1v1 classes in the game, that doesn't mean they are the most powerful pvp class in the game just one of the best duelist classes in the game, there is a difference and one that should be taken into account.
Being the best duelist in the game has its own distinct advantages, but they bring some of the best group buffs, an extremely good blind for peeling other melee off of healers, they're second in ball running only to tank Juggs, and they're the most self-sufficient dps in the game.

Then you look at things like what a Marauder in a premade with healers can do and what an Op a BH or a dps Jugg can do and it just doesn't stack up because of the crazy amount of defensive cds they get. Don't get me wrong, I play a Marauder and I love it. But I've had so many situations where I started at an extreme disadvantage or even admittedly got outplayed and still came out on top just because I feel like we got everything.
Freija 50 Marauder Vornskyr

PeterSith's Avatar


PeterSith
03.15.2012 , 12:25 PM | #208
Quote:
Nobody outside the building has seen the patch notes for 1.2 yet. So whoever is reporting anything regarding the class changes in 1.2 is likely doing so based on second or third hand commentary from someone who might - or might not - have seen the patch notes.

I got asked some questions regarding individual classes by people at the Guild Summit and have answered all of them. When / if these people decide to divulge those answers is up to them.

In regards to comments about 'relative silence about class X': We generally do not comment on balance related plans or findings on the Forums, for any class, until we have made a firm decision to change something and the patch that does so is on the Public Test Server. Doing anything else would limit options and create unreasonable expectations.

We do, at rare occasions, hint at upcoming changes (e.g. in a Q&A), but these cases are exceptions.

Yes, you may say 'Georg, then give us the real information'. That's fair, we totally appreciate that you guys are impatient. However, giving you that information requires it to be final, and it is not. It will be final enough for initial public consumption when patch 1.2 is on PTS.

It's tempting to give snippets and hints about these changes here, now, to calm people down - but all that will accomplish is everyone who isn't getting their information will cry foul. It's happening already based on the article you are referencing ("Why are you nerfing X but not Y"), which is completely void of any details. On the internet, saying X means that everyone else hears 'Not Y'.

So:

Yes, I want you to have that information, but I want everyone to get it at the same time, when it is ready, and I want you to get the full picture. Thus, you will all get it with the full patch notes on PTS. Once that information is there, you can test the changes on the server and voice your feedback as usual and yes, some people will be happy, some won't.

If we ever reach the point where every class thinks they are completely balanced and everything is great, I'll take the red pill and unplug from the matrix.
That is definitely a lot of words about nothing really, but I do appreciate you see us all as equals. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope to see the 'final' balancing decisions on PTS.

On that note, let's hope it is not a total epic fail, and proper testing and aspects of balancing are taken into consideration before release any 'final' changes. God forbid things should be release without testing, and just to 'try something different' and 'see if this works' or 'maybe that'.

I hope the cliche, if it's not broken don't fix it, comes to mind during this process.
(▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇۞ʭ≬▩▩▩▩≬ʭ۞▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇)

Tempsticks's Avatar


Tempsticks
03.15.2012 , 12:38 PM | #209
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
This class isn't "complex" it is overly complex. That isn't a good thing. You can remove some of the complexity without making it an "easy" class. Nobody is asking for it to be a Bounty Hunter who can get by with 4 abilities.

We are asking for some quality of life adjustments that not only stop us from giving ourselves carpal tunnel syndrome but also allow this class to be more accessible. We should not be required to have high end equipment specifically to make things possible to compete.

For example do you play your Sentinel with a gaming mouse and/or gaming keyboard? Do you use button/key macros? If your answer is yes (and I know no Sentinels who are successful that don't) then you can increase the complexity of the class by not doing so, but you shouldn't feel like those things are needed.

Currently I do feel like my gaming mouse/keyboard are required for me to play my Sentinel.
My Laptop and my mouse are 7 years old, my mouse has 2 buttons and a wheel. I do very well in WZs on my server and get invited to premades constantly. It's not even hard. Imo warrior on WoW was 10x harder than this. All classes should be relatively equal when played at the top skill level and they're not, Marauders are stronger than the others. Like someone else said I don't have to worry about ANY class in voidstar and ald, and the only class I have to worry about in huttball matches are snipers on platforms, but I just LoS them and kill them if they try to follow.

In fact, I have a 50 Sorc and while I get good overall damage on it (sometimes even more than on my Marauder) I feel like I have to work 3x harder to survive because melee two shot me and they're nigh impossible to kite for long enough to actually kill before I go down, regardless of the cds I pop the ccs I use, etc.

Starwars is the easiest MMO to look like an above average or good player that I've ever been a part of tbh. Not saying that's a bad thing but go join a WoW private server and get a free 80 Warrior and see how long it takes before you stop getting destroyed.
Freija 50 Marauder Vornskyr

Roucious's Avatar


Roucious
03.15.2012 , 12:54 PM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
... we totally appreciate that you guys are impatient.
I laughed so hard when I read this. This is so true in the game and in real life peaple just need to take it down a couple notches and breath... Don't assume it's not like the game is going away soon and you don't have time to give your input to the changes.

Remember the Force is peace.