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Annihilation and Ravage


Murmurrr's Avatar


Murmurrr
03.02.2012 , 01:23 PM | #1
Everyone knows that Ravage feels slow and is hard to fit in anywhere, but since the first two hits occur quickly and the final blow from the 3 second channel comes at the very end, why not always chain a ravage into an annihilate?

The startup animation for annihilate (I haven't actually done any timing of this) seems to be very long, and you can skip that startup time by casting annihilate out of ravage. If you start to cast ravage and then mash annihilate, you will get the first two hits of ravage off and then immediately annihilate. Would the damage gained from the two hits of a free and otherwise not used ability (ravage) be worth the extra time spent before annihilating?

Also if you do it and watch your GCD it seems like you cast annihilate when your GCD sweep is only ~4/5 complete or something...

I know it is kind of counter-intuitive to sacrifice the last hit of ravage, but is the damage from the last hit worth the extra time it takes to channel after the first two hits plus the time it takes for the annihilation startup animation?

Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
03.02.2012 , 02:00 PM | #2
I almost always clip my Ravage ASAP to cast annihilate when possible, especially in pvp. It's been proven that letting the 3rd hit of Ravage go off is usually a dps loss due to the ~2 seconds it takes to go off, while the first 2 hits happen within the first second.

Imo, use ravage like it was a GCD ability basically, but one that you have to stand still for, and always interrupt it as soon as possible. I find this very helpful in PvP as well as PvE. Try the following combo in PvP:

Force Charge (Deadly Sabers while charging in, it's off GCD), Battering Assault, Rupture, Ravage, Annihilate.

Interrupt Ravage with Annihilate as soon as the GCD will let you, ie, spam Annihilate while channeling ravage. You will always get the first 2 hits off and afterwards, your ravage will hit. The effect of this is that you get both bleeds going while you use your hardest hitting abilities over a 6-8 second burst.

If you want to really go nuts, build up 30 fury, pop Bloodthirst, Frenzy, and do the combo with both Bloodthirst and Berserk running to boost your dmg/make all bleeds crit and heal you + party.

malispar's Avatar


malispar
03.02.2012 , 02:21 PM | #3
You're right. Ravage is slow and clunky, and after those first 2 hits, the 3rd is negligible. Honestly, in a 1v1 situation I find no time for Ravage, and there are far better ways to spend your rage.

Ravage is awesome when someone else is actively cc'ing a target (choke, knockdown, stun) but otherwise it's pretty lackluster. Even as Carnage which is supposed to root them (so I hear, I never take that talent when I go Carnage), someone just needs to interrupt you to shut it down.

Even in PvE, depending on a mob's HP and where my CDs are at, I will interrupt Ravage after 2 ticks.

Murmurrr's Avatar


Murmurrr
03.02.2012 , 02:49 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Aluvi View Post
I almost always clip my Ravage ASAP to cast annihilate when possible, especially in pvp. It's been proven that letting the 3rd hit of Ravage go off is usually a dps loss due to the ~2 seconds it takes to go off, while the first 2 hits happen within the first second.

Imo, use ravage like it was a GCD ability basically, but one that you have to stand still for, and always interrupt it as soon as possible. I find this very helpful in PvP as well as PvE. Try the following combo in PvP:

Force Charge (Deadly Sabers while charging in, it's off GCD), Battering Assault, Rupture, Ravage, Annihilate.

Interrupt Ravage with Annihilate as soon as the GCD will let you, ie, spam Annihilate while channeling ravage. You will always get the first 2 hits off and afterwards, your ravage will hit. The effect of this is that you get both bleeds going while you use your hardest hitting abilities over a 6-8 second burst.

If you want to really go nuts, build up 30 fury, pop Bloodthirst, Frenzy, and do the combo with both Bloodthirst and Berserk running to boost your dmg/make all bleeds crit and heal you + party.
Yeah I have been always cancelling my ravage into annihilates in pvp and pve when i found out about this, but I noticed in kiba's guide he didn't mention it.

I mainly want to see if people know about this and to discuss the pros/cons of using 2 hits of ravage into annihilate VS not using ravage at all.

Foxcolt's Avatar


Foxcolt
03.02.2012 , 02:59 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by malispar View Post
You're right. Ravage is slow and clunky, and after those first 2 hits, the 3rd is negligible. Honestly, in a 1v1 situation I find no time for Ravage, and there are far better ways to spend your rage.

Ravage is awesome when someone else is actively cc'ing a target (choke, knockdown, stun) but otherwise it's pretty lackluster. Even as Carnage which is supposed to root them (so I hear, I never take that talent when I go Carnage), someone just needs to interrupt you to shut it down.

Even in PvE, depending on a mob's HP and where my CDs are at, I will interrupt Ravage after 2 ticks.
Ravage costs no rage to use :\

Because it's a channeled ability it autofaces.

The last hit (should you choose to let it go off) has some range to it and hits like a truck.

Ravage certainly has it's uses in PVP.

malispar's Avatar


malispar
03.02.2012 , 03:11 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Foxcolt View Post
Ravage costs no rage to use :\

Because it's a channeled ability it autofaces.

The last hit (should you choose to let it go off) has some range to it and hits like a truck.

Ravage certainly has it's uses in PVP.
My bad, I meant better things to attack with? Lol.

I did notice that Ravage has a little bit of "lag time" as in, if someone is running away, there's a good chance I am going to hit someone with at least 1 swing.

If Annihilation is up though, for sure I'm gonna be hammering that button over letting Ravage finish.

Foxcolt's Avatar


Foxcolt
03.02.2012 , 03:16 PM | #7
Of course this is all under the pretense that it doesn't bug out and stun you for 3 seconds dealing no damage.

Which happens all the f'in time :|

Superastro's Avatar


Superastro
03.02.2012 , 06:20 PM | #8
Hmm, as annihilate spec I find Ravage usabLe in pvp only when I dont have the rage to use any skill, everything on cd and i need to finish some enemy "fast".

Ravage - doesnt build Fury ( i could b wrong)
Ravage - Dont get you RAGE points

Ravage is a DPS loss in the long run, tho it is good in some key moments. (annihilate spec)
My English is bad.

Murmurrr's Avatar


Murmurrr
03.02.2012 , 08:14 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Superastro View Post
Hmm, as annihilate spec I find Ravage usabLe in pvp only when I dont have the rage to use any skill, everything on cd and i need to finish some enemy "fast".

Ravage - doesnt build Fury ( i could b wrong)
Ravage - Dont get you RAGE points

Ravage is a DPS loss in the long run, tho it is good in some key moments. (annihilate spec)
You get something like over 1000 damage in by only sacrificing maybe half of a GCD though?

If the animation for annihilate takes X seconds to perform, you spend 1.5 seconds on the GCD for ravage but save X seconds by not having to perform the annihilate animation, thus getting the first two hits of ravage damage in trade for 1.5-X seconds of time.

Now if only we knew what X was, we could calculate the DPS for the first two hits of ravage... Assuming my logic is correct.

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
03.03.2012 , 09:11 PM | #10
If you're high on rage and have everything on cooldown with a recently proc'd rupture(6s ICD) then you're good to use ravage for it's full duration. Otherwise just use the first 2 ticks. It's a very limited window when Ravage is worth using fully.

In most situations I just skip it because it STILL bugs out a lot and that's a massive DPS loss.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
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