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Guardian vs. Shadow vs. Vanguard

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Guardian vs. Shadow vs. Vanguard

-Sithis-'s Avatar


-Sithis-
03.01.2012 , 03:46 PM | #1
My valor 68 guardian with full tier 2/3 gear.

http://imageshack.us/g/94/focus3x.jpg/

My lvl 19 Assassin in 2 consecutive WZ's.

http://imageshack.us/g/23/swtor2012030111361568.jpg/

My lvl 12 Vanguard in 2 consecutive WZ's.

http://imageshack.us/g/718/win2l.jpg/


IMO, doing 300k/100k/30k on a lvl 19 Assassin tells me I can do at least 500k/150k/75k at lvl 50 with champion gear. In fact, I know a shadow that has done 639k/150k/80k in champion/BM gear. I know a vanguard that has done over 500k damage in CENTURION gear. And this is all after the surge nerf.

I have extensive experience in Focus, Vig, and various hybrids. I consistently get 350-500k damage in Vig and Focus, and all I do in this game is PvP.

If you don't believe me, come hang out with me on Warriors of the Shadow server.

Otherwise, explain how it makes sense that a shadow can get 600k+/150k+/75k+ in full tank spec, while I cap out around the stats shown in my first link.

I do fine in most 1v1 and group situations, but as soon as more people figure out how to play Shadow/Vanguard, Guardian's will have less and less purpose outside of Huttball.

Summary: Justify a Shadow getting 600k+ damage in full tank spec, or show me a Guardian that can do the same.


***EDIT: Redid OP for greater clarity and simplicity!

Invictusthetaru's Avatar


Invictusthetaru
03.01.2012 , 04:01 PM | #2
What spec are you as a 20 assassin?

My 25 shadow kinetic spec NEVER sees that kind of damage or protection. The games are over too fast and the force regeneration at low levels blows ***.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.01.2012 , 04:02 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Invictusthetaru View Post
What spec are you as a 20 assassin?

My 25 shadow kinetic spec NEVER sees that kind of damage or protection. The games are over too fast and the force regeneration at low levels blows ***.
From what I've read, he's said his shadow is largely a tank spec.

-Sithis-'s Avatar


-Sithis-
03.01.2012 , 04:04 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Invictusthetaru View Post
What spec are you as a 20 assassin?

My 25 shadow kinetic spec NEVER sees that kind of damage or protection. The games are over too fast and the force regeneration at low levels blows ***.
Currently at lvl 20 I have all 11 points in the shared tree (Balance). I also have a lvl 34 Shadow that I have no problem getting top damage/protection on every game. Basically, you get Force in Balance and the Double Slash/Project buffs, and you are golden in Combat Technique.

The problem is how Shadow can enter Combat Technique and get over 40% damage reduction and take almost no DPS loss, while Guardians who use Soresu build half as much focus.

EDIT: Here is the spec I would have as a lvl 25 Shadow.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601MZZf0cRd.1

AndantePhist's Avatar


AndantePhist
03.01.2012 , 05:08 PM | #5
Vanguard> shadow> guardian in damage when it comes to tank specs.

I'm a focus guardian, in an average pug voidstar I can easily get 500-600k damage.

A full tank vanguard can easily break 500k damage in voidstar regularly while having insane survivability.

I've never seen a tank assassin/shadow break 500k though, maybe this was before they nerfed hybrid specs for shadows.
Guide on how to bridge the PVP gear Gap for fresh level 50s in 2 days -http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=222960

Invictusthetaru's Avatar


Invictusthetaru
03.01.2012 , 05:12 PM | #6
Awesome, I'll switch it up. What level should I switch to tank spec?



Also, my main is a lvl 50 focus guardian and I'll agree that the tank tree doesn't have enough damage especially when compared to energy consumption / gain.

shadows specced tank have: aoe force slow that does damage on low CD, force breach aoe lowers acc automatically no points needed,force pull, procced high damage tele throws procced high damage projects, an ability that makes all force/tech attacks useless, stealth out of combat, stealth in general, better energy system.

Guardians specced tank get: Full armor reduction move that does decent dmg but hardly any to heavy armor opponents, some SPECCED cc whereas shadows already have stun, lift and cloak mezz; aoe mezz(shared w/ knights), aoe snare, guardian leap, force leap, and some terrible talents that don't really effect pvp too much.

Guardians are a different beast than shadow, a bit tougher to play well, but honestly there is something lacking in that left tree.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.01.2012 , 05:12 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by AndantePhist View Post
Vanguard> shadow> guardian in damage when it comes to tank specs.

I'm a focus guardian, in an average pug voidstar I can easily get 500-600k damage.

A full tank vanguard can easily break 500k damage in voidstar regularly while having insane survivability.

I've never seen a tank assassin/shadow break 500k though, maybe this was before they nerfed hybrid specs for shadows.
Supposedly these pictures are post nerf.

-Sithis-'s Avatar


-Sithis-
03.01.2012 , 05:18 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by AndantePhist View Post
Vanguard> shadow> guardian in damage when it comes to tank specs.

I'm a focus guardian, in an average pug voidstar I can easily get 500-600k damage.

A full tank vanguard can easily break 500k damage in voidstar regularly while having insane survivability.

I've never seen a tank assassin/shadow break 500k though, maybe this was before they nerfed hybrid specs for shadows.
Nope. I have a Shadow guildie that got 639k Damage, 150k protection, and ~80k healing in one of the first Warzone's I did with him about 2 weeks ago (after surge nerf/shadow update). His spec was 31/0/10 (not a hybrid).

And just to clarify, no nerf took place on the shadow class. In fact, the spec that uses the Combat Technique (equivalent to our Soresu) wasn't even really affected by the "nerf," which was actually a fix that made some hybrid specs BETTER.

And yes 500k is easy to break in Shii-Cho focus, but I prefer to run my Soresu blend so that I can guard healers.

-Sithis-'s Avatar


-Sithis-
03.01.2012 , 05:20 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Invictusthetaru View Post
Awesome, I'll switch it up. What level should I switch to tank spec?



Also, my main is a lvl 50 focus guardian and I'll agree that the tank tree doesn't have enough damage especially when compared to energy consumption / gain.

shadows specced tank have: aoe force slow that does damage on low CD, force breach aoe lowers acc automatically no points needed,force pull, procced high damage tele throws procced high damage projects, an ability that makes all force/tech attacks useless, stealth out of combat, stealth in general, better energy system.

Guardians specced tank get: Full armor reduction move that does decent dmg but hardly any to heavy armor opponents, some SPECCED cc whereas shadows already have stun, lift and cloak mezz; aoe mezz(shared w/ knights), aoe snare, guardian leap, force leap, and some terrible talents that don't really effect pvp too much.

Guardians are a different beast than shadow, a bit tougher to play well, but honestly there is something lacking in that left tree.
Both 31/0/10 and 27/0/14 are ideal Shadow specs at lvl 50, in DPS gear.

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Supposedly these pictures are post nerf.
All pics and numbers are post-nerfs. And again, there was no shadow "nerf."

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.01.2012 , 05:26 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by -Sithis- View Post
All pics and numbers are post-nerfs. And again, there was no shadow "nerf."
Was referring to the surge nerf which nerfed about everyone.