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Be Careful for what you wish for


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Ironspeed's Avatar


Ironspeed
02.29.2012 , 08:42 AM | #131
With full time job, a wife, two kids and other social activities, and the fact that we are a bunch of real life friends who have a hard time playing at the same time (all in the same boat basicly) I welcome a LFG finder, cross realm, even better add in some form of battle.net (lets not call it origin account, I swear I will never touch that pile) but call it Biofriendster(tm) or something.

I actually made several friends while doing LFG in WoW and many of them played at our hours, being able to queue with them and all was amazing.

Also my server has been like 100 on fleet lately, down from 200+ a few weeks ago, the guildies play less and less and my experience with getting groups is random, if I'm lucky I might find someone looking for the last spot, trying to form something with the tools avaiable now is tedious at best, I would rather be out doing something then spam a channel (NO, I will not PM people randomly, I find it rather rude and frankly I shouldent have to resort to that).
The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.
-Marcel Proust

chaosdefined's Avatar


chaosdefined
02.29.2012 , 08:42 AM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by Dayfax View Post
+1. Massive hat tip. Great comeback (honestly & with no sarcasm).



Have you ever tried to run a real poll? It's not so easy, or simple. First, you've got to be very careful to phrase the questions in a way that won't bias the answers you receive. Then, you've got to choose what people you're going to be polling, and the manner in which you do this can also bias results. And you've got to make sure the group you're asking is large enough to be statistically significant.

Online polls fail badly on all those levels. Worse, on a technical level they're stupidly easy to game.

I'm not sure what I could provide as proof. I posted a quote from Blizzard's CEO which would seem to back up my contention (which you clipped when quoting me), and I'm not sure what I could possibly provide you with at this point that would satisfy.

If you follow is chain of thought:

1) MMOs are gear based progression games that heavily rely on socialization.
2) LFG tools remove or at least minimize much of the socialization.
3) LFG tools make it easy to gear very quickly.
4) With or without LFG tools, baring anything else if players complete content, they unsubscribe.

So, if you gear up in a couple of weeks and know nobody in the game, it's highly likely you'll quit. This is what Blizzard's CEO was talking about, and this is what countless players in these forums have posted.

LFG tools hasten this process (as another poster said). How or why you cannot see that, I'm not sure. Where my logic falls short and my reasoning goes off track, you've also failed to say.
But it's not the main reason that people have quit the game, it hasn't destroyed it. WoW still has, as far as we now, around 10 Million subscribers. For a game that's dying, I'm impressed!

LFG tools may hasten the progress of players getting gear, but the lack of LFG tool causes frustration in players being unable to actually do anything, which results in them quitting instead.

All I'm asking for is a single-server LFG tool that you can queue into whilst running dailies or levelling, that pairs you up with people on your own server.

Or even just one big universal LFG channel that people can talk in no matter where they are and organise groups.

That's all I want. I don't want an equivilent to the LFR (which, in my opinion, IS one of the reasons so many people are quitting, but that's an entirely different discussion), I just want a simple LFG tool for doing Flashpoints when there's nobody on in my guild that is my level.

Gomuningen's Avatar


Gomuningen
02.29.2012 , 08:46 AM | #133
To OP.

Sorry to say but I do not care about communities, friendships or what not in a online world. I have enough of that in real life. I only am interested in mashing peoples faces in through PVP. Stop living in 2000 and get with the program, its all about convenience. I need it now and not later, I do not want to work for something. Give it me to raw and wiggling ! Dont spoil me nice fishes!

That is all...../thread

IIII-IIII-IIII's Avatar


IIII-IIII-IIII
02.29.2012 , 08:47 AM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by Gomuningen View Post
To OP.

Sorry to say but I do not care about communities, friendships or what not in a online world. I have enough of that in real life. I only am interested in mashing peoples faces in through PVP. Stop living in 2000 and get with the program, its all about convenience. I need it now and not later, I do not want to work for something. Give it me to raw and wiggling ! Dont spoil me nice fishes!

That is all...../thread
^^ Fairly accurate summary of far too many MMO players nowdays.
.
Operative Iron Citadel
Infiltration, Manipulation, Assassination

Tetrablade's Avatar


Tetrablade
02.29.2012 , 08:47 AM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by Dayfax View Post
Many threads about this. Used to be dead set against x-server tools for the reasons you describe.

Now I can't see how the game will survive without them.

I dare you to level a toon on a low pop server & then come back and post about LFG tools.
Sadly i'm in the same thoughts. When you have to spend hours looking for someone just to do a Flashpoint then you have a problem. With republic on my server as it is, I imagine most people are sticking to their guilds and not doing pugs.

As for PvP? I dunno, but PvE definitely needs the cross server tools.
There's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart, if you value your continued existence, if you have any plans about seeing tomorrow there's one thing you never, ever, put in a trap.....Me. -The Doctor

Dayfax's Avatar


Dayfax
02.29.2012 , 08:50 AM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by Meldwyn View Post
I don't know if I would say "meaningless"...

But I do get your reference to grinding for a rare pet drop, which I finally got in WoW once. Unfortunately, by the time I got it, it was more about being relieved I no longer had to grind for it, than about enjoying the unique pet I just got.
Haha, I know exactly what you mean. I once farmed Dire Maul to get a specific Darkmoon card to drop, and in the end it wasn't so much about getting the trinket but making that effin' ogre give me what I wanted once and for all.

I think it's meaningless in the sense that neither one of us would have engaged these kinds of grinds in a single player game. There's little satisfaction about going through hell if you can't tell anyone about it afterwards.
"Sounds like you could use a soldier."

SWImara's Avatar


SWImara
02.29.2012 , 08:51 AM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Darka View Post
For everyone who screams the game must do X or else, there is an equal amount of people who dont want the game to go to X.
I think the lesson for the forums would be, be careful what you wish for... Drones and Fanbois will spend the entire thread flaming and fighting and missing the subject
Pretty well thought out comment for page one of a fourteen page thread. It'd be really nice if BW considered using in game surveys to collect opinion polls, at the moment I am growing increasingly fearful that they're watching the forums... which are like the dregs of any MMO's community.

Smitar's Avatar


Smitar
02.29.2012 , 08:54 AM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Dayfax View Post
+1. Massive hat tip. Great comeback (honestly & with no sarcasm).



Have you ever tried to run a real poll? It's not so easy, or simple. First, you've got to be very careful to phrase the questions in a way that won't bias the answers you receive. Then, you've got to choose what people you're going to be polling, and the manner in which you do this can also bias results. And you've got to make sure the group you're asking is large enough to be statistically significant.

Online polls fail badly on all those levels. Worse, on a technical level they're stupidly easy to game.

I'm not sure what I could provide as proof. I posted a quote from Blizzard's CEO which would seem to back up my contention (which you clipped when quoting me), and I'm not sure what I could possibly provide you with at this point that would satisfy.

If you follow this chain of thought:

1) MMOs are gear based progression games that heavily rely on socialization.
2) LFG tools remove or at least minimize much of the socialization.
3) LFG tools make it easy to gear very quickly.
4) By their nature, LFG tools require content be streamlined & made easier.*
5) With or without LFG tools, baring anything else if players complete content, they unsubscribe.

So, if you gear up in a couple of weeks and know nobody in the game, it's highly likely you'll quit. This is what Blizzard's CEO was talking about, and this is what countless players in these forums have posted.

LFG tools hasten this process (as another poster said). How or why you cannot see that, I'm not sure. Where my logic falls short and my reasoning goes off track, you've also failed to say.

* edited
Trick is making the top tier gear an achievable goal, but not too achievable. WoW...I can get iLevel 384+ gear in LFR, some 397. Same as you can get in DW regular. I will never, ever, be good enough to raid DW heroic and get the iLevel 410 gear. So is that an achievable goal for me? Nope. SWTOR, the raids are ridiculousy easy, so getting the top level gear a snap. WoW...once you're geared via LFR, the "average" person is done...all dressed up, no where to go. SWTOR...run the raids a few times, same...all dressed up, no place to go.

WoW...4x 85s, as geared as they ever will be, SWTOR...2x 50s, as geared as they ever will be.

It's not the tools themselves, that allow people to better play the game, it's the rewards. You WANT people to actively be playing the game and forking over their $15 a month. They need to come up with a different carrot to dangle, to both keep interest, allow character progression, but without ever reaching the "I'm done" stage. Continually adding higher level gear isn't the answer...

Dayfax's Avatar


Dayfax
02.29.2012 , 08:58 AM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by Gohlar View Post
While this is true games are supposed to be fun. Looking for groups is not fun. This has been proven time and time and time again.

That pretty much ends the discussion. Suggesting you hamstring your own game to keep people from gearing up is absurd.
On one hand I agree. Hamstringing your own game sounds bizarre, on the face of it.

On the other .. What's worse: having an arbitrary gear block existing in the game, or having people quit completely because they're bored and can't quite articulate why?

What do you think Blizzard or Bioware would prefer? The possibility of retaining 10% of their subs, or making it easier to get geared?
"Sounds like you could use a soldier."

RocNessMonster's Avatar


RocNessMonster
02.29.2012 , 08:59 AM | #140
Quote: Originally Posted by IIII-IIII-IIII View Post
^^ Fairly accurate summary of far too many MMO players nowdays.
MMO players, that's an understatement, it's more like this entire generation.
I need about tree fitty.
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