The thought that WoW has more endgame content

Right now wow has 3 tiers of end game content, all with hard modes, plus a raid that is unlocked via pvp.

that's more raids than we have as end game now in swtor.


The fights in tor are much simpler than the ones in wow, with some even claiming that hardmode ops = lfr difficulty.

really, tor in general (not just raids, but hard mode FP as well) just uses a lot of enrage timers to cover up the fact that the fights are mind numbingly easy.

You left out arena, rated battlegrounds.

So wow has achievements, arena, and rated battlegrounds, plus more raids, more dailies, more battlegrounds, more mounts/pets/collectables, holiday events. That first one is significant, since it includes stuff like rep grinding (which people did even back in EQ for no actual benefit). That looks like significantly more than what tor has.


Yes, I'd say that TOR is even more aimed at casuals than WoW, even with LFR.

This is actually a very flawed way of looking at it. From the World of Warcraft Wikipedia page "Development of the game took roughly 4–5 years". You cannot dismiss TOR by saying: When they started development on TOR, WoW only had this and this. And look what WoW developed in the meantime.

WoW, by then, already had a clear direction and was already pumping out content in a steady (though slow) stream, while also having 5 years of development and a few years of open beta testing, sorry I mean vanilla WoW, behind it.

Of course, you can expect more from a new game. But not content wise. Especially not in a themepark game like WoW or TOR.

I actually think this game, given time, will put WoW to shame when it comes to the amount of content the development team can push out. Two content patches in the first 3 months of the game is what we are looking at once 1.2 comes out. That is a pace Blizzard could never even dream about.

I do admit the Operations and Flashpoints need more tweaking and the difficulty of them should go up. But most of early WoW was also tank&spank. And although you can assume many veterans from earlier MMOs join the game, Bioware is also focussing on drawing in non-MMO players to this game. So the early Operations and Flashpoints cannot be too hard for new players to fight.

I do hope they do step up their harder content soon though, because loosing the hardcore player base is not something you want in the long run. Because every new player can be a future hardcore player who gets burned out by spending too much time on the game before they become an adult casual ;-)

"loosing the hardcore player base is not something you want in the long run."

No, we want them all to pack up there stupid ego's and doomsayer camp sites and go back to scoffing chips and mountian dew while snort loling over Skyrim meme's before the real portion of game population settles into end game. The last thing we need is hardcores causing guild drama, spamming recount and demanding raid achieves while killing off all gameplay and the positive vibe from happy new players.

By the way OP made alot of valid points which has been berried in stupid.

This game sucks though.

/thread

This game is fun.

/open thread

Of which two are obsolete save for legendary staff farming, and the PVP "boss" is nothing but a tank n spank loot pinata.

All subjective, and the difficulty's line up like:

Normal = LFR
Hard = Normal
Nightmare = Hard

Besides with an announcement like this (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=335137) it shows they are listening.

Probably on purpose because arenas are an admitted failure and RBG is not far behind, calling pvp in that game broken is being too kind.

Since endgame locusts consist of about 1% of the playing population, its just smart business to make your game more accessible.

No, they're all non-obsolete end game for some people; I know people who were very casual and were still doing the original cata raids as their primary end game content other than dungeons, at least back in January (I didn't' check in during February).

and really, the "tank and spank loot pinata" that you're talking about actually have mechanics beyond "dps before it hits enrage" ... which seems to be the standard TOR mechanic. If you scoff at them being end game content, you basically have to scoff at most of the things cited as TOR's end game content...

Eh, there are plenty of people on the forums claiming that they're more like

normal = non-heroic cata dungeons
hard = heroic cata dungeons
nightmare = lfr.

It's still end game material that wow has that this one doesn't

the fact that it's a mistake from a design perspective doesn't mean that it isn't successful from player content perspective. The quote that you're referencing means the former, not the latter.

I'm not disagreeing with that statement, I'm disagreeing with the claim that TOR isn't aimed at casuals more than wow

The reason you give here is why TOR is aiming at being even more casual friendly than WoW.

What WoW has that SWTOR does not

Arena
Flying Mounts
Rated Battleground
LFD finder
Open World Feel
Smooth reactive gameplay
Swimming
Chairs to sit in
Day/Night cycles
Vastly different races
Factions you can support
Leaders worth following
Dual Spec
Weapon choices
Crafting professions that matter
Economy that works
Multiple Hubs people gather at
Decent framerates in hubs mentioned above
Capitol city raids
Modable UI
Multiple zones to level in (1-60 anyways)
Target Dummies
Holidays
Choice of pets
Barbershop
Armory
Sever Transfers
Faction Transfers
Name/Race Changes
Forums that link to characters in game
GM's in game that come talk to you when you open a ticket
Guides and fansites galore for every aspect of gaming
Moonguard Goldshire ERP
Guild Tabards
Choice of Battleground/Warzone entered
Combat Log
Rare Spawns
Achievements
Class specific mounts
Factions to gain affection with
Easily accessable dueling centers
Restrictions on mounts at Auction House
Fishing
Cooking
Organic AND mechanical mounts
Classes that can teleport other players
Classes that can summon other players
Beer
Macros

TOR's current issues aside, if WoW was so awesome - they would not be close to losing 2 million subscribers and laying off 600 employees. All I might add, since Cataclysm launched.

Note: I was a 7 year subscriber to WoW. I have zero desire to return to pandaland either.

Many things on your list are completely subjective.

Other things are completely useless.

Some things are entirely destructive.