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This game lacks epeen


Dumpiduke's Avatar


Dumpiduke
03.01.2012 , 12:32 PM | #591
Quote: Originally Posted by va_wanderer View Post
That's the point. Why spend all that energy distracting a small portion of the playerbase?

Just put more raid-level mobs out in the existing game world. Put them in areas where it's PvP-active to boot for some real "nightmare mode" challenges. Yes, PvE mobs in a PvP-active area. They don't need special snowflake zones to go do this stuff. Trust me. Raiders don't give much of a flying fudge WHAT the area is, just that it's big and tough and hard to kill for interesting shinies. You don't need new zones for those mobs. You just need new mobs.

You could probably revive Ilum singlehandedly if you dropped a dozen or so Ops-level (and/or group sized) hardmode mobs into the middle of that snowy pile of junk. Walkers that disembark a unit that makes Havoc Squad look like Girl Scouts, giant war droids, an Imperial Sith Lord with a legion of elite/bosslevel bodyguards, whatever. And while you're at it, having to deal with enemy players as well. There's your endgame challenges.
I don't think you'd have to spend too much energy to tune NM modes to make them ridiculously challenging since the core is already there, but I love your idea. I loved outdoor raid bosses back in the day and I would LOVE to see them in Ilum. It'd be so tough to do with the faction imbalances though

There are also a number of other factors to consider when instituting world bosses. How often do they respawn? How much loot do they drop? The biggest factor of course, how do you make it fair for the faction that is fewer in numbers? Difficulty tiered ops give both sides equal opportunity to progress their characters, both hardcores and casuals.

Dayfax's Avatar


Dayfax
03.01.2012 , 12:43 PM | #592
Quote: Originally Posted by va_wanderer View Post
That's the point. Why spend all that energy distracting a small portion of the playerbase?

Just put more raid-level mobs out in the existing game world. Put them in areas where it's PvP-active to boot for some real "nightmare mode" challenges. Yes, PvE mobs in a PvP-active area. They don't need special snowflake zones to go do this stuff. Trust me. Raiders don't give much of a flying fudge WHAT the area is, just that it's big and tough and hard to kill for interesting shinies. You don't need new zones for those mobs. You just need new mobs.

You could probably revive Ilum singlehandedly if you dropped a dozen or so Ops-level (and/or group sized) hardmode mobs into the middle of that snowy pile of junk. Walkers that disembark a unit that makes Havoc Squad look like Girl Scouts, giant war droids, an Imperial Sith Lord with a legion of elite/bosslevel bodyguards, whatever. And while you're at it, having to deal with enemy players as well. There's your endgame challenges.
Daaaaaaamn, dude fantastic ideas. Raid bosses in PvP zones sounds like a blast. Haha, even DBM will be useless when the opposing faction attacks mid-pull. God, really hope Bioware does something like this.
"Sounds like you could use a soldier."

Dunston's Avatar


Dunston
03.01.2012 , 12:49 PM | #593
Quote: Originally Posted by Stupiddrummer View Post

at lvl 39 in WoW i was dreaming about the day where my druid might possibly wield the hand of rag.
How dare you.....

Oneirophrenia's Avatar


Oneirophrenia
03.01.2012 , 12:49 PM | #594
Coming from a relatively hardcore player through multiple MMOs, I can safely say that there is already an overabundance of e-peening in online games already. The internet world needs less e-peen, not more. If SWTOR is a game that is lacking in the e-peen factor, I say great and keep up the good work. I grew out of that immature and superficial phase 5 years and 3 MMOs ago.

Aloro's Avatar


Aloro
03.01.2012 , 12:59 PM | #595
Quote: Originally Posted by Abiza View Post
After all 57 pages, I believe I seen maybe 2 posts that could somehow be construed as chauvinist from the hardcore crowd and they really haven't been insulting anyone.
I've lost track of how many times all casual players have been slandered as "bads"; that's one of the most common themes in this thread actually. Again and again people state outright, or sometimes merely imply, that anyone who self-identifies as a casual player must be unskilled. Not only that, generally there's a further insinuation that all casual players really want to be hardcore players on some level, but just can't hack it.

Let's not pretend that all the hardcore players are being courteous and considerate and all the casual players are being judgmental jerks here; that's simply not true. People on both sides of the discussion are being unreasonable.

JediElf's Avatar


JediElf
03.01.2012 , 12:59 PM | #596
Quote: Originally Posted by Dumpiduke View Post
Pretty much this. James Ohlen specifically stated in his 1.2 teaser video that the game is for 'You'. Not casual gamer 'You', not hardcore game 'You', but the whole community 'You'.
If he can pull that off, if he really can...then that man is a god among MMO devs.

I can't wait to see what 1.2 will bring. ^_^

va_wanderer's Avatar


va_wanderer
03.01.2012 , 01:04 PM | #597
Quote: Originally Posted by Dumpiduke View Post
I don't think you'd have to spend too much energy to tune NM modes to make them ridiculously challenging since the core is already there, but I love your idea. I loved outdoor raid bosses back in the day and I would LOVE to see them in Ilum. It'd be so tough to do with the faction imbalances though

There are also a number of other factors to consider when instituting world bosses. How often do they respawn? How much loot do they drop? The biggest factor of course, how do you make it fair for the faction that is fewer in numbers? Difficulty tiered ops give both sides equal opportunity to progress their characters, both hardcores and casuals.
You don't. PvE+PvP raiding is inherently unbalanced and unpredictable, which makes the same mob vary in difficulty EVERY SINGLE TIME. Have them drop special commendations for everyone, plus a few nice unique orange/purple bits each time, and two-three blue/orange world drops appropriate for the mob level in question. Special commendations get turned into unique looking orange gear.

You want a good example? WoW. Raiding cities. Sometimes people would hit them at 3AM local time, sometimes they'd try and roll through in the middle of prime time. Sometimes you'd see almost no opposition. Sometimes you'd have a horde of players to keep at bay while your main group went for the prize.

Make some PvE-only. Make some PvE+ PvP. But get them out there and make sure they're in large numbers. Worried about monopolizing them? Make them triggered mobs from a vendor item (hey, credit sinks!) that aggro on the user and despawn if left alone for too long.

But you don't stick them in instances. Instances are horrible for endgame. It sticks all your awesome in a little box where nobody can see it.

Stick the awesome just outside the main quest hub for a planet, where all the locals see you battling said awesome mob. Stick the PvE-PvP mobs IN the main quest hubs for a planet, so everyone not only see you battling said awesome mob, they're lured in to fight. (On PvE servers, they even have a choice to just sit there and watch.).

Take, oh, Balmorra for a PvE example. Put a new "World Boss" level mob in near Bugtown- a super-huge mutated Colicoid Queen is just below the surface, and will obliterate the Republic base before rampaging across the planet. OH NOES! Fortunately, the Republic scientists have found a frequency that will enrage the Queen, causing it to rise up before it spawns an unstoppable horde. All they need is a brave group who can slay it before it does...and has the money to fund it's rapid construction.

Guild spends credits on spawn item, goes to area, spawns Queen, has epic fight with Queen and army of bugs- if they lose, after X amount of time Queen "burrows back down" and despawns with any of her remaining adds. If they win, Op-level group gets commendations + aforementioned item drops. Cue cutscene where deep in the earth, a few survivors are feeding a new mutant Queen...and of course, outside players can opt to help you defeat the challenge. Adds can have world-drop options, green to purple but no uniques.

Or for a PvE+PvP example, the Republic has discovered a spy's attempt to give the Empire an opening to destroy their primary base on the planet. The spy was supposed to set off a signal beacon to summon the Imperial unit that was to crack the defenses and take over. Fortunately, the spy was caught before the Imperials knew she was compromised, and here's the beacon...for a price from the bounty hunter who found it before the Republic did. Pay his price, set off the beacon and destroy the Imperial attackers. Guild buys beacon, sets at appoporiate area, incoming epic Sith Lord and unit of crack Imperial Commandos to fight. Again, outsiders can help- but the main mob is already aggroed on the spawner.

Or another one- the Empire really HAS successfully found an in. Once the guild has paid off the spy, he'll reveal the location. Then set off the signal, the Empire will engage the outer defenses (like those normally 1-shot-killer turrets) so a crack team (the guild) can enter the area and assassinate the Republic command crew, decapitating the defenses to the planet. Of course, they'll only be able to keep the door open for a brief period of time, so a team will have to get in and stay in until the job is done. Dying without someone to revive you means coming back to a medcenter outside the Republic base, so if you wipe completely and the window has been shut...you'll be starting over. Good luck! Maybe you'll have help from fellow members of your side. Maybe you'll have enemy players trying to stop you. Maybe you'll even TELL them in advance to see how many pathetic enemies from the other faction will be lured to the fight so you can stomp them, or if they'll all cower in terror. Different every time.

Instances cut the epic out of epic fights. You're in your own little sandbox, where nobody sees it happen but your guild. Epic fights deserve to be seen, not just FRAPSed and put on Youtube for showing off your epeen.
Help unify PvP and PvE content- PvP+E! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=298731

cipher_nemo's Avatar


cipher_nemo
03.01.2012 , 01:31 PM | #598
Quote: Originally Posted by Abiza View Post
Please, the casuals started the slandering on page one and it only got worse from there. Move along now.
The OP itself screams elitism and hardcore. So while casuals might have bashed the hardcore player, the entire thread is a bash to casuals. I'm a mixture of both hardcore and casual, so I can laugh at this thread while also wondering when we'll get more end-game status symbols.

Oh, that's right, we're getting them: 2.5 million credit end-game crystals in 1.1.5.

Saurakk's Avatar


Saurakk
03.01.2012 , 01:34 PM | #599
Quote: Originally Posted by Aloro View Post
I've lost track of how many times all casual players have been slandered as "bads"; that's one of the most common themes in this thread actually. Again and again people state outright, or sometimes merely imply, that anyone who self-identifies as a casual player must be unskilled. Not only that, generally there's a further insinuation that all casual players really want to be hardcore players on some level, but just can't hack it.

Let's not pretend that all the hardcore players are being courteous and considerate and all the casual players are being judgmental jerks here; that's simply not true. People on both sides of the discussion are being unreasonable.
Well I am going to politely disagree with your assumption.

Many of the pro-raid content posts explain why they would like it in game.

Those against act like people are asking to have a prison built in their neighborhood and anyone who wants to add raids is somehow an undesirable person who is rude, unhelpful, and unhealthy to THEIR game.

Yes, the OP's approach may have turned some people off but if people would look more at the content and not the approach it would have been a much more healthy conversation.

Abiza's Avatar


Abiza
03.01.2012 , 01:37 PM | #600
Quote: Originally Posted by cipher_nemo View Post
The OP itself screams elitism and hardcore. So while casuals might have bashed the hardcore player, the entire thread is a bash to casuals. I'm a mixture of both hardcore and casual, so I can laugh at this thread while also wondering when we'll get more end-game status symbols.

Oh, that's right, we're getting them: 2.5 million credit end-game crystals in 1.1.5.
The OP doesn't scream elitism at all. It screams hardcore(and there's nothing wrong with that by they way). It's your insecurities and false preconceived notions of what hardcore is that presumes it's elitism.
"At the end of the day everyone has to die, you should be honored the assassin chose you to die."

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