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This game lacks epeen


JeremyDale's Avatar


JeremyDale
02.28.2012 , 09:41 PM | #261
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansultares View Post
It's really an issue of how content is generated and presented.

I'm surprised no developer has instituted a tier system for releasing content, where current content is reduced in difficulty and expanded upon at the same time new raid content is released.

Basically, start with a raid focusing primarily on intricate boss fights, with minimal trash between bosses, and steep progression. Then begin expanding the content for small groups; less intricate boss fights, with more trash, sub-bosses, more complex quests than simply killing boss X. Finally, expand it to the point where it is a fully fleshed out zone, with solo difficulty boss fights, more engaging side-trash, many more quests, etc.

The truth is, real casuals don't even reach the end-game content they QQ about not being able to access; I don't know why you'd make them the primary target for end-game content, and simply scale up from there.

Trickle-down game design....pro stuff.
You are missing the point.

Casual will be able to access it - just not as frequently as hardcore players. They will maybe do hardmodes a couple of times a week at best. A raid now an then, possibly but will not be able to commit to regular raiding schedules and the like and wont' gear their character up nearly as quick as hardcores who raid and instance frequently usually every day.

Obtaining 50 tionese crystals and 30 something commendations or w/e looks a lot more daunting to a casual player than it will to a hardcore player.

The issue isn't access generally, it's how frequently access is going to be acheived.

But at least SWTOR does have a gear-grind for hardcore players. YOu may find it too easy, but at least it exists. There is almost nothing for casuals on this game to do outside of particpating in the gear-grind hamsterwheel WoW invented that seems to appeal so much to the supposed hardcore crowd.

It was the casuals who got shafted on this game. Not the hardcores.

Ansultares's Avatar


Ansultares
02.28.2012 , 10:01 PM | #262
Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
You are missing the point.
Did you even read my suggestion?

Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
Casual will be able to access it - just not as frequently as hardcore players.
Simply put, the game is too easy if true casuals are already reaching end-game content. You're talking about amateur hardcores (often ex-hardcores) who can't be bothered to accept that they're not going to sit at the cutting edge of gear/content progression due to their real life constraints.

Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
They will maybe do hardmodes a couple of times a week at best. A raid now an then, possibly but will not be able to commit to regular raiding schedules and the like and wont' gear their character up nearly as quick as hardcores who raid and instance frequently usually every day.
What's funny is that if you have limited time and you want to engage in group activities, scheduling is usually the best way to go about doing it, in gaming or elsewhere in life.

Really, you're saying that you hate the most obvious solution to the issue, while also maintaining that you cannot accept that you won't be accessing the content now.

Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
Obtaining 50 tionese crystals and 30 something commendations or w/e looks a lot more daunting to a casual player than it will to a hardcore player.
Obtaining 50 tionese crystals and 30 commendations looks repulsive to me in general, like daily quests and lockout timers.

Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
The issue isn't access generally, it's how frequently access is going to be acheived.
Which leads to LFD, drastically decreased difficulty, unappealing and widespread lockout timers, etc., because casuals also don't like time sinks or RNG loot or any of a number of other methods for adding progression systems.

Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
YOu may find it too easy, but at least it exists.
I find it shallow and uninteresting, never mind that it's too easy.

Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
It was the casuals who got shafted on this game. Not the hardcores.
Casuals...so self-entitled. You really should just say that everyone got shafted.

DreamEagle's Avatar


DreamEagle
02.28.2012 , 10:13 PM | #263
Just my thoughts on the issue.

Anything to satisfy the Epeeners (as in the obnoxious people ) should NEVER exist!!!

That said, I do however believe that the HArdcore ( non obnoxious for most part) should get their due. The higher the difficulty to beat the content.. the better stats there should be on the drops. And there should be tiered hardcore content..IE.. you need to have tier 1 gear before you can even think of fighting tier 2 content..etc.

However, Fluff belongs to everyone! Meaning... cool looking armors and weapons and colors and mounts and anything else that is just visual should be attainable by any play style. You should not have to be hardcore to obtain the best looking armor/weapon/mount. But as stated above, the hardcores should get better stats in their gear and maybe even a "slight" speed increase on the mounts dropped in harder content.

This applies to PVE. As far as PVP..there should be separate gear for that obtained only through PVP and there should be tiers such that PVPers in full BM cannot battle fresh 50's.
I don't really care what else is done with PVP as I only do it if there is something cool looking or better for PVE.

In short..say NO to Epeeners!!!! And give some Lovin to BOTH hardcores and casuals.

JeremyDale's Avatar


JeremyDale
02.28.2012 , 10:16 PM | #264
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansultares View Post
Did you even read my suggestion?

Simply put, the game is too easy if true casuals are already reaching end-game content. You're talking about amateur hardcores (often ex-hardcores) who can't be bothered to accept that they're not going to sit at the cutting edge of gear/content progression due to their real life constraints.

What's funny is that if you have limited time and you want to engage in group activities, scheduling is usually the best way to go about doing it, in gaming or elsewhere in life.

Really, you're saying that you hate the most obvious solution to the issue, while also maintaining that you cannot accept that you won't be accessing the content now.

Obtaining 50 tionese crystals and 30 commendations looks repulsive to me in general, like daily quests and lockout timers.

Which leads to LFD, drastically decreased difficulty, unappealing and widespread lockout timers, etc., because casuals also don't like time sinks or RNG loot or any of a number of other methods for adding progression systems.

I find it shallow and uninteresting, never mind that it's too easy.

Casuals...so self-entitled. You really should just say that everyone got shafted.

I don't like splitting up my quotes so i'll just collect everything you said here and respond generally.

And yes, I read your suggestion - but the problem with the hardcore vs casual issue isn't just ease of access or difficulty of content, that was what I was trying to explain to you. It's also a lack of content. They are trying to appeal to casuals and hardcores with the same type of content - and I feel that is part of the issue.

And adhering to frequent schedules is just not possible for many players - so I disagree with you that it's an obvious solution. The better solution would be to include an effective LFD tool so casuals can easily access content when they do have time to play.

As far as you calling casuals "self-entitled" and your frequent use of the word "you" as if trying to make this post personal and about me, I'll just ignore for now

Hardcores got shafted to a degree, yes - but not nearly to the extent casuals did. This game built their entire endgame soely around an instance-based gear-grind, a model that is going to appeal more-so to hardcores who can commit to frequent raiding times rather casuals who play off and on and can't commit to group schedules.

kaboro's Avatar


kaboro
02.28.2012 , 10:20 PM | #265
Always better to lack epeen than to lack brains......the problem is you cant figure that out with your epeen, just with your brains, and apparently they are mutually exclusive.....brains and epeen that is.

Eddizel's Avatar


Eddizel
02.28.2012 , 10:20 PM | #266
Quote: Originally Posted by Derfmiolleh View Post
I just payed 16 bucks for another month and I was happy to do it. I am having a blast scrubbing away at what I consider to be premium entertainment. Those who play over 40hours a week will never be satisfied, they can only be temporarily appeased. On my schedule it will take me much longer to milk all the value out of this amazing content. I just relax and anjoy. Eventually when the rest of us catch up BioWare will feed us more. The "hardcores" will always devour content quickly.
I play 9 hours a week, right now less then 3 to just farm the raids and log off. I have lost all interest in a pvp system with no competition so I am not logging in for that either.

40 hours a week rofl, don't confuse some hardcore players for bad players, alot of us get twice as much done as a casual player in half the time, like that old military saying.

Devoured it quickly? Yes. Had to play alot to do it? Hell no.

Aussiedroid's Avatar


Aussiedroid
02.28.2012 , 10:31 PM | #267
Agree with the post. We have a group only half geared for OPs yet we still get through with little issue. Now we have been in the OPs several times its just a cake walk. The only thing that generally kills us is game bugs (Soa anyone??).

Its not just once you get the gear you can clear, it should require skill and persistence to get through these OPs. We dont simply need enrage times to make things harder, BW need to up the scale to make this a chalellenge to survive (not simply 1 shot kills if you do something wrong).

Regrettably the game design from dialogue all the way to end game content is designed for casual gamers in my view and well to be blunt ... kids. I got the simular feeling watching the newer prequel trilogy too.

So those real players who will spend the time and month after month keep playing will be lost in this game.

Bioware may not be overly concerned as we will fuel money to them to keep the advertising and marketing machine going to secure new subs. In the long run this will simply bleed the game dry though.

The game should cater for both groups.
... No, I'm not the droid your looking for!

Stabbitha's Avatar


Stabbitha
02.28.2012 , 10:38 PM | #268
Quote: Originally Posted by Derfmiolleh View Post
I just payed 16 bucks for another month and I was happy to do it. I am having a blast scrubbing away at what I consider to be premium entertainment. Those who play over 40hours a week will never be satisfied, they can only be temporarily appeased. On my schedule it will take me much longer to milk all the value out of this amazing content. I just relax and anjoy. Eventually when the rest of us catch up BioWare will feed us more. The "hardcores" will always devour content quickly.
Good for you. The two people like you are still subscribed in a friends guild of 25.

The other 23 or so are letting their accounts lapse when they run out because there's nothing left to do and we already have TS for socialising...

I don't much care for big "I R QUITTING" posts because I don't think they accomplish much, but BW and co. can see the account details, and if my guess is correct, they should be a bit worried if the ghost town my server has become is any indication.

Ansultares's Avatar


Ansultares
02.28.2012 , 10:41 PM | #269
Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
They are trying to appeal to casuals and hardcores with the same type of content - and I feel that is part of the issue.
I thought my suggestion of tiered content addressed that. February's op is March's flashpoint is April's solo content, and it gets expanded for story and content while adjusted for complexity along the way.

Quote: Originally Posted by JeremyDale View Post
The better solution would be to include an effective LFD tool so casuals can easily access content when they do have time to play.
There must be a better solution, something between the current LFG and LFD. Blizzard took the easiest solution when they went with LFD, which is surprising because if I expected anyone to design a better LFG tool it would be Blizzard.

I'll ignore the rest, though my final point is still very accurate.

JeremyDale's Avatar


JeremyDale
02.28.2012 , 10:49 PM | #270
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansultares View Post
I thought my suggestion of tiered content addressed that. February's op is March's flashpoint is April's solo content, and it gets expanded for story and content while adjusted for complexity along the way.

There must be a better solution, something between the current LFG and LFD. Blizzard took the easiest solution when they went with LFD, which is surprising because if I expected anyone to design a better LFG tool it would be Blizzard.

I'll ignore the rest, though my final point is still very accurate.
Tiered content is still the same type of content. It's the WoW-style hamsterwheel where players grind certain instances or raids over and over for new gear. That's just not going to appeal to a lot of casual players - especially if that is all there is to do. It doesn't matter how easy or how difficult it is. That is why I'm trying to tell you.

I loathed WoW. But I thought their LFG tool was very effective and useful, and would love to see it on this game. That's the only thing I thought WoW did right. But while that would make accessing hardmodes and other group-based content easier for casuals to access - it still doesn't address the lack of a variety in content at endgame though. That's a problem as well, especially for casuals trying to enjoy this game after they reach level 50.

As far as your final point being accurate. If that was the snide little comment about casuals being self-entitled or w/e... it wasn't accurate at all, and was just dumb