Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

was Anakin's belief wrong?


EnsignSorrow's Avatar


EnsignSorrow
02.25.2012 , 09:27 PM | #11
The Jedi don't practice immortality. Why would they want to live forever? That is sort of self-centered. Jedi often say that the force is life, and death. Also, the emperor only managed to preserve himself when he consumed a whole world. He wanted to consume the whole galaxy so he could become immortal, and have complete power, even if it were only himself.

So, I think it's difficult to become immortal with the force without consuming the force from other living beings.

CapWinterz's Avatar


CapWinterz
02.25.2012 , 09:38 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by wilsonzx View Post
What about Yoda? He was over 900 years old.
I think that was more of his species (Which we still don't know dammit!) more than the force, but we can't be 100% because it neither says yay or nay in that aspect, but i think the immortality is more of a dark side thing and i highly doubt the great master yoda would dabble in that.
Mandatory Referral link aswell as FAQ.

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
02.25.2012 , 10:26 PM | #13
As far as we know, Yoda's species is long lived, and Humans can live to be over 100yrs old. Other species have also shown they can live for long periods as well.

As for the Sith Emperor, Vitiate, he performed a specific ritual that granted him immortality at the cost of 100 Sith Lords and millions of innocent lives, as well as the very life force of a planet. Vitiate's appearance hasn't changed since then and retains a youthful visage. Darth Scourge's own lifespan has been extended by an alchemic formula created by Vitiate which would seem to grant eternal life (not necessarily immortality), however it also has made Scourge feel excruciating pain that he has had to deal with ever since then for the passed 300yrs. Naga Sadow is also said to have extended his live via the Force and lived to be over 600yrs old.

It is true that more Darksiders look for ways and have created means of extending their life, such as Darth Anddedu with the Essence Transfer. It also happens to do with a small fact; that the Sith and Dark Side users actively study the Force in all aspects, delving deeper than the Jedi would permit themselves to. In short, the Jedi restrict themselves from learning too much, or are simply afraid of leaning things about the Force that they believe should be left a mystery. The Sith, however, do not feel the need to restrict or restrain themselves in the pursuit of knowledge and power. It's why Sith Sorcery is so very powerful.

The problem is, there's always a price to pay. As we often see, those who delve too deeply into the Dark Side are changed by it. The paling of the skin and creases in the flesh, to advanced aging as well, are all side-effects of the over use and deep immersion into the Dark Side. For those in SWTOR who have played the Sith Inquisitor storyline, then you know all about how deeply affected Zash was from her unyielding drive to study the dark side and learn its secrets.

Now, as for whether or not Anakin was wrong...well I can be honest. Most of what he did was wrong, in all the things he did. For one, he had a girlfriend/wife, which was against the Jedi teachings. Two, he often allows his emotions to rule his decisions, despite the fact that he has been taught to quell those emotions. Third, he killed the Sand People in a blind rage when he discovered his mother had died. Despite the fact that such an action would do nothing to help him nor to bring his mother back, he had again let anger and hate rule him and unleashed all of his sadness and fury upon the Sand Peoples village.

Anakin formed attachments, which were forbidden. There are other Jedi who have made similar mistakes, however Anakin was already well down the path to the Dark Side because of his childish impulsiveness and inability to control his emotions. Nevermind the fact he never studied far into the Force anyway beyond the most basic abilities and just relied on his natural affinity and raw power to get him through everything.

How Anakin was wrong is quite simple; he allowed himself to believe what Palpatine was telling him was true, that Padme was going to die and he couldn't stop it. He had allowed himself to be manipulated into doing exactly what he was trying to prevent. The only reason why he wanted to save Padme was because Palps told him she was going to die. Anakin listened to him and suffered the consequences.
CE Owner: ...what? I wanted the music. I like music.
Statement: SGRA's - I support them. Do you have a problem with that, Meatbag?

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
02.25.2012 , 10:39 PM | #14
Well, there's a few things to this.

First, Anakin was having visions of Padme's death, not realizing that, by being willing to do whatever it takes to keep her alive, he would ensure her death. The classic self-fulfilling prophecy. So in this case, Anakin's belief that embracing the Dark Side would keep Padme alive was demonstrably false.

Now, on to the basic concept, of Dark Side power providing the ability to sustain, create, and prolong life, even into immortality. . . sure, it's POSSIBLE. Just extremely difficult. The Dark Side is kind of like dealing with the Devil; the more you want, the more it will cost you. The Emperor of TOR's Sith Empire is only immortal because

Spoiler


Likewise, other Sith (and certainly non-Sith Darksiders) have experimented with ways of attaining immortality, but there is always a price tag attached, a cost that must be paid, and it will usually (in the truest tradition of Faustian bargains) make the very thing you sought a torment.

Qui-Gon Jinn, on the other hand, discovered the true road to immortality, by fully embracing the concept of 'oneness with the Force.' The RotS novel makes it clear that the Sith, with their internal focus, cannot achieve that ultimate state of "letting go," and thus true immortality as a Force Spirit is denied them.

Now, this didn't come out until a number of Dark Side force spirits had been established in EU canon, but there's a pretty easy fix for that. A Dark Side spirit has not "become one with the Force" and retained identity, it clings to this world through sheer force of will. As demonstrated several times when dealing with these Dark Side spirits, they can be destroyed, and some have even faded away without any anyone to replenish the energy they need to keep going. It is at least implied that Exar Kun was starting to slip away in just this fashion, until Luke brought him a bunch of untrained, malleable Force-Sensitives to corrupt and feed upon.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
02.25.2012 , 10:58 PM | #15
Exar Kun actually used a ritual to bind his Spirit to that place, which is why the temple was sealed off to begin with. Much the same way Naga Sadow did when he died and his Force Spirit would later possess a Jedi in order to escape. Now, a Dark Side Force Ghost doesn't just disappear over time, but they can choose to stop appearing. More often than not they are bound to a place or object, either by a ritual or because of a strong connection to that place/object. Ajunta Pall, for instance, has been a Force Ghost for several thousand years by the time Revan stumbled upon him. He had his regrets and had been suffering in his Tomb the whole time and it was suggested that it was either his choice to remain there or because his Spirit was still attached to the mortal world by the sword he had forged and was laid to rest with him.

It's also possible for a Dark Side Spirit to "let go" and become one with the Force. As BioWare has said that Revan was more of a "Light Side" in KotoR, one such option was helping Ajunta Pall's ghost release itself from his torment and let go of his personal anguish and become one with the Force, to return to his long dead masters.

Jedi Force Spirits are generally unbound, in that they are not tied to a specific place or object. However, they do tend to appear before people they have had connection to in life. Such as Qui-Gon appearing before Obi-Wan in the "Mortis" episodes of TCW and Obi-Wan appearing to Luke to help guide him when he needed it. So in a sense even Jedi Ghosts are bound, just not to places, but to the people they were closest too. Even in the Legacy Series, Luke's Force Ghost continued to appear to try and help guide his descendants. In that sense he's tied to his family bloodline.

I will go on to say that in SW, there is no such thing as True Immortality. All things can and will die, and even the Spirits will either pass on or fade away from memory. True Immortality would imply that the person cannot die at all. Not by disease or injury, nor time. They will not age, nor could they be injured (in most immortality cases the wound heals instantly). Nothing would be able to destroy them. Force Ghosts/Spirits, regardless of which side they're on, are not impervious nor immortal. They're just the dead.
CE Owner: ...what? I wanted the music. I like music.
Statement: SGRA's - I support them. Do you have a problem with that, Meatbag?

Vecke's Avatar


Vecke
02.26.2012 , 12:29 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Revan-the-knight View Post
Aint that a bit odd? i mean the Light Side is the path to Defense and healing, shouldnt the Jedi have atleast something similiar??
That's sort of the point of what Qui Gon, Yoda, and Obi Wan were able to do. The Sith always sought immortality, but they never truly achieved it because they didn't understand what immortality was. Eventually (even if it was after hundreds of years), they died. Often, it was from murder.

The Jedi learned that immortality had nothing to do with the physical world ("Luminous beings are we; not this crude matter"). Obi Wan finally understood this by the time he faced Vader, which was the meaning behind the "You can't win, Darth" speech.
"I know."

Vecke's Avatar


Vecke
02.26.2012 , 12:37 AM | #17
double post.
"I know."

Vecke's Avatar


Vecke
02.26.2012 , 12:38 AM | #18
From the Episode III novel...

Quote: Originally Posted by Vecke View Post
Spoiler
"I know."

FalcoLombardi's Avatar


FalcoLombardi
02.26.2012 , 09:21 AM | #19
Yes, it's a very selfish act.

Last year in October, I took my dog to the vet because he had a nose bleed. Which he had gotten as a puppy but this one went on for like 4-5 days. Vet thought he was 10, he was 4 and 1/2, had a heart murmer or something like that, other stuff. You wouldn't have been able to tell because he was always happy and only cared about making everyone else happy.

I could've spent money on treatment, to save him for a while, but I knew he would still be suffering a bit, so I put him down. Now I know he's in a better place and free of pain
......|||
======= God Bless
......|||
......|||

Tegamal's Avatar


Tegamal
02.26.2012 , 11:40 AM | #20
Sorry for your loss.
Happiness is like peeing your pants. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel it's warmth.