Move madness talent in madness tree (no cooldown on lightning) to 31 point talent (this applies to it's mirror as well).

 

Class fixed.

 

A) Class would still have the exact same viability in raiding as dps.

 

B) Class would STILL be the best ranged class in pvp as full balance/madness.

 

C) Class would be a late bloomer in pvp just like other classes. Guardian/Jug are HORRIBLE until later levels in pvp. What does this accomplish? Less FOTM rerolls.

 

D) Lightning is probably among the best leveling specs in the game, so leveling is NOT a problem. You can still solo 2 man quests with ease, which is something some classes can't do at all.

 

E) Does not effect the lightning/tk tree at all, which some people prefer playing.

 

In addition resolve needs reworked, but this is a problem with all AC's. No class needs more CC then a instant mez, a knockback and a RANGED stun, when they already have a RANGED slow, and a main attack that also autokites. The hybrid spec root on knockback is the real issue. When there are 4 or more hybrid sorc on the other team, that talent alone makes melee completely useless. When added to all the other CC? It is just stupidly OP.

 

This is where someone claims deep balance/madness has another CC (root). The difference? You actually have to target that person, you actually have to hit a key to do it, and you aren't screwing over 2-3 melee who are targeting someone else (a healer for instance) and just happen to be within knockback range.

 

They already have nerfed other hybrid specs (shadow/assassin) that NOONE complained about. My solution kills the hybrid spec, and still leaves sorc/sage with the same pve dps, same dps in pvp, and all it really does is just make life BEARABLE for melee in this game.

 

I would still play a deep balance/madness spec over a commando/merc/slinger/sniper.

 

Add to that a full balance/madness spec is every bit as good in a one on one vs a melee as a hybrid spec due to the additional SINGLE TARGET root you get, so you don't lose one vs one viability either.

 

Also if Bioware is worried this may cost them subs (cus everyone plays sorce/sage)? Completely unfounded. Why? The players that couldn't succeed on what is still the best range class in this game (as full balance/madness), are too bad to play a ranged class in WoW. All those classes require "fakecasting" due to spell tree lockouts, and have cast times or setup on cc, and they also require timing/combos on classes like a frost mage.

 

To put it simply...they have nowhere else to go.

Edited February 24, 2012 by biowareftw

The only "fix" needed for sorc/sages is;

 

(1) Grant Resolve on immobilize (which goes for all classes which use the same mechanic as well)

 

(2) Move the talent that grants immobilize on KB further up the tree

 

(3) Slghtly increase the Force cost of some powers

 

 

 

Anything morer than this is simply asking for a freebie-kill on any sorc/sage for people who have serious L2P issues and do not deserve such a kill.

Is interrupting a 3-sec channel really that hard?

 

Also, where would Creeping Terror go?

 

The only "fix" needed for sorc/sages is;

 

(1) Grant Resolve on immobilize (which goes for all classes which use the same mechanic as well).

 

I do agree with this.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Excidium

Move madness talent in madness tree (no cooldown on lightning) to 31 point talent (this applies to it's mirror as well).

 

Class fixed.

 

A) Class would still have the exact same viability in raiding as dps.

 

B) Class would STILL be the best ranged class in pvp as full balance/madness.

 

C) Class would be a late bloomer in pvp just like other classes. Guardian/Jug are HORRIBLE until later levels in pvp. What does this accomplish? Less FOTM rerolls.

 

D) Lightning is probably among the best leveling specs in the game, so leveling is NOT a problem. You can still solo 2 man quests with ease, which is something some classes can't do at all.

 

In addition resolve needs reworked, but this is a problem with all AC's. No class needs more CC then a instant mez, a knockback and a RANGED stun, when they already have a RANGED slow, and a main attack that also autokites. The hybrid spec root on knockback is the real issue. When there are 4 or more hybrid sorc on the other team, that talent alone makes melee completely useless. When added to all the other CC? It is just stupidly OP.

 

This is where someone claims deep balance/madness has another CC (root). The difference? You actually have to target that person, you actually have to hit a key to do it, and you aren't screwing over 2-3 melee who are targeting someone else (a healer for instance) and just happen to be within knockback range.

 

They already have nerfed other hybrid specs (shadow/assassin) that NOONE complained about. My solution kills the hybrid spec, and still leaves sorc/sage with the same pve dps, same dps in pvp, and all it really does is just make life BEARABLE for melee in this game.

 

I would still play a deep balance/madness spec over a commando/merc/slinger/sniper.

 

Add to that a full balance/madness spec is every bit as good in a one on one vs a melee as a hybrid spec due to the additional SINGLE TARGET root you get, so you don't lose one vs one viability either.

 

Also if Bioware is worried this may cost them subs (cus everyone plays sorce/sage)? Completely unfounded. Why? The players that couldn't succeed on what is still the best range class in this game (as full balance/madness), are too bad to play a ranged class in WoW. All those classes require "fakecasting" due to spell tree lockouts, and have cast times or setup on cc, and they also require timing/combos on classes like a frost mage.

 

To put it simply...they have nowhere else to go.

 

 

imo they must remove knockbacks completely! imo this kind of cc is the worster from all.

add to that the SMALL resolve bar affect of knockback then you get the picture

 

under some circumstances one knockback can get you of fight for 1minute (i do not count the switch target strategy) or even kill you using environment

 

and knockbacks are the 1 problem with sorcs/sages

the others are in your post

The only "fix" needed for sorc/sages is;

 

(1) Grant Resolve on immobilize (which goes for all classes which use the same mechanic as well)

 

(2) Move the talent that grants immobilize on KB further up the tree

 

(3) Slghtly increase the Force cost of some powers

 

 

 

Anything morer than this is simply asking for a freebie-kill on any sorc/sage for people who have serious L2P issues and do not deserve such a kill.

 

Why bother with multiple changes when one change accomplishes everything and it could be implemented in a hot fix...

 

Fact. Hybrid spec can outdps a pure spec. This was stated many times in sorc/sage threads where people ran tests with fraps. In addition the hybrid spec picks up additional cc. That screams BROKEN.

 

My change would also not effect lightning whatsoever. Some people enjoy that playstyle. Why would you alter a spec in anyway that isn't even widely played in pvp?

 

You are taking the stance that the hybrid spec was intended. This is simply a delusional train of thought. All specs are balanced in pvp around going deep into talent trees and the specs that did not have been nerfed.

 

In no way does this make sage/sorc a "free kill". In fact it wouldn't hinder you in a one on one whatsoever. All this change does it prevent splash ROOTS on knockbacks of players that aren't even being targeted, which is what makes stacking hybrid sorc/sages so powerful.

 

Your warzone dmg wouldn't go down. Your one on one viability wouldn't go down. The only thing that would go down is people quitting the game or rerolling to your class, which will just lead to a much worse TO THE GROUND nerf later on.

 

A pure madness/balance spec is STILL the best ranged pvp class in the game.

 

You are taking the stance that you deserve more CC then all other classes, and that that CC should be AUTOMATIC, and that you should do the same or better damage then a pure spec, when that pure spec is in no way suffering or underpowered. You also claim that you would be a free kill when you in fact pick up an additional SINGLE PLAYER root that requires a key press and a target, when you are already the second easiest spec to play in the game.

 

That has got to be the most laughable thing I have ever read.

Is interrupting a 3-sec channel really that hard?

 

Also, where would Creeping Terror go?

 

Exactly.

 

Interrupting and locking out the 3-sec channeling of the lightning/pebbles, whch require the caster to be stationary, is like the fundamental basic of fighting sorcs/sages.

 

30% chance to proc an instant activation on a few major powers is not a very high chance at all, and when this channeling is locked down a considerable amount of the firepower they can dish out is gutted.

 

Therefore, unless it is specifically a healer-build sage/sorc, the moment you see a sustained bolt of lightning or pebbles is the moment you quick switch targets for an active interruption.

 

After that, the sorc/sage is free to stay in one spot getting smashed by my attacks to cast it again and again until finally the insta-cast buff procs... but usually they don't. They try to run away... and a sorc/sage moving around which failed to proc/cast the major DoT is simply screwed from that point on.

 

 

This is something you do by experience and practice - not by relying on the system. It's called PvP - player vs player, and not PvS - player versus system.

Is interrupting a 3-sec channel really that hard?

 

Also, where would Creeping Terror go?

 

 

 

I do agree with this.

 

Switch places with madness talent. If you are worried that some might create a "lightning hybrid", move creeping terror up one tree.

 

To those that argue that this would make balance/madness impossible to level with...

 

I could literally level this class with 0/0/0 with a tank companion as could anyone. Add to that some trees are absolute garbage to level with like a focus/rage spec. They are very viable when you get deep into the tree, just like madness/balance would be.

Exactly.

 

Interrupting and locking out the 3-sec channeling of the lightning/pebbles, whch require the caster to be stationary, is like the fundamental basic of fighting sorcs/sages.

 

30% chance to proc an instant activation on a few major powers is not a very high chance at all, and when this channeling is locked down a considerable amount of the firepower they can dish out is gutted.

 

Therefore, unless it is specifically a healer-build sage/sorc, the moment you see a sustained bolt of lightning or pebbles is the moment you quick switch targets for an active interruption.

 

After that, the sorc/sage is free to stay in one spot getting smashed by my attacks to cast it again and again until finally the insta-cast buff procs... but usually they don't. They try to run away... and a sorc/sage moving around which failed to proc/cast the major DoT is simply screwed from that point on.

 

 

This is something you do by experience and practice - not by relying on the system. It's called PvP - player vs player, and not PvS - player versus system.

 

What does this have to do with exchanging a AUTOMATIC root on knockback that Bioware/EA never intended for your class to have as a balance/madness spec with a root that requires a keypress and is single target.

 

All this does is change the group pvp dynamic and makes the game less of a living hell for melee. The more hybrid sorc/sages in a warzone the worse melee do. This would be fine if they already didn't have hard counters like sniper/slingers whom they can't even charge when in cover.

 

You will still do more dmg then any other ranged class, you will still be very hard to kill one on one (as in it takes a VERY long time to kill you before help arrives/or that player is downed).

 

Please explain to me why you as a class deserve more then a instant cast mez, a knockback on MULTIPLE people, a RANGED stun, a RANGED root, a RANGED slow, and a spammable RANGED attack that AUTOFACES to and kites your target. You get all of these things with a full balance/madness spec.

 

You are simply asking to be stupidly OP instead of slightly OP with a pure spec. Sounds pretty dumb to me...

Edited February 24, 2012 by biowareftw

Even easier fix is to get +50% damage on top talent abilities.

 

They already have nerfed other hybrid specs (shadow/assassin) that NOONE complained about.

 

They nerfed operatives too.

 

So you could conclude that "how many people play it" and "how many people QQ" is not really good metric for "nerfing" but when something is actually out of whack.

 

imo they must remove knockbacks completely! imo this kind of cc is the worster from all.

add to that the SMALL resolve bar affect of knockback then you get the picture

 

It fills 4 bars of resolve. 80%. Just as standard 4s stun. Thats NOT small.

Edited February 24, 2012 by GrandMike

imo they must remove knockbacks completely! imo this kind of cc is the worster from all.

add to that the SMALL resolve bar affect of knockback then you get the picture

 

The only picture I'm getting right now is one of bad math, when someone considers a power that triggers 40% Resolve as being "small".

 

 

...under some circumstances one knockback can get you of fight for 1minute (i do not count the switch target strategy)...

 

Bullshi*.

 

Tell me how you are "out of the fight for 60 minutes" from a KB.

 

 

...or even kill you using environment

 

Isn't that what PvP is about? Are you actually saying the players utilizing their powers in cohesion with the terrain/environment to achieve kills, is a problem?

 

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that when fighting a sage/sorc, there is a 100% chance he will attempt to throw you into the pit or the burner. Is it not up to the player to try and actively position himself to avoid from that happening? I mean, that's PvP. The other guy attempts something, you try to counter it or avoid it.

 

It's not up to the system to automatically ensure something bad does not happen to you.

Even easier fix is to get +50% damage on top talent abilities.

 

Turbulence/Thundering Blast sure deserve a buff. 50% strike me as a bit much though.

Turbulence/Thundering Blast sure deserve a buff. 50% strike me as a bit much though.

 

Considering its 2s induction and top talent (so no insta casts) it should have some impact on the game. Otherwise why use it at all?

Edited February 24, 2012 by GrandMike

The only picture I'm getting right now is one of bad math, when someone considers a power that triggers 40% Resolve as being "small".

 

 

 

 

Bullshi*.

 

Tell me how you are "out of the fight for 60 minutes" from a KB.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that what PvP is about? Are you actually saying the players utilizing their powers in cohesion with the terrain/environment to achieve kills, is a problem?

 

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that when fighting a sage/sorc, there is a 100% chance he will attempt to throw you into the pit or the burner. Is it not up to the player to try and actively position himself to avoid from that happening? I mean, that's PvP. The other guy attempts something, you try to counter it or avoid it.

 

It's not up to the system to automatically ensure something bad does not happen to you.

 

You forgot the part where he makes it sound like Sorcs/Sages are the only ones that have a knockback and you have to talent for the root. Sorcs/Sages have the shortest of all of the knockbacks and Snipers get the root automatically on their knockback. Overload is about half the distance of the other knockbacks, which doesn't make much sense when you look at the defensive abilities they actually get.

 

An absorption shield is the only thing a Sorc/Sage has to reduce damage and it can be cleared in a single attack by at least half of the advanced classes. Sorc and mage type classes are usually intended to be glass cannons, meaning they can die the fastest but hit the hardest. Well, the dying the fastest part is there, but they sure don't hit the hardest. In fact, they don't even come close. The highest crit I've seen was just under 4400 with every possible kind of cooldown/adrenal blown wearing a mix of battlemaster, rakata and columi gear.

 

I level a sniper to 10 and decide to play around in a warzone. I see a sage start casting healing trance. He's a healer so I drop an explosive probe on him, start cranking up an ambush and hit overload shot with it. The ambush crits for 4507, the probe for 2380 and the overload shot for 2108.

Pft, whatever guys. If I want to fix a sorc I'll send my BH at em. It's super-effective.

Considering its 2s induction and top talent (so no insta casts) it should have some impact on the game. Otherwise why use it at all?

 

It looks cool.

It looks cool.

 

Insta cast TW looks better, running around with your hands in the air. Priceless

Sorcs dont really need fixing. If they took away snare and root from the resolve bar, the resolvebar would need to be much bigger.

 

The balancing is fine, but trying to explain that to the sorc haters in the world is impossible.

 

People should try to be less unresonable, and actually try to play the sorc. You will find out it is not just a killing fest. When you get targeted in PvP, you die fast, all you got is your skills to get away. If you didnt have skills to kite people, and hide behind stuff, we would die the second someone targetet us.

 

Sorc is the class with least burst dmg in the game, the least armor. If you take away theyre defensive skills, what do they have? Good looks? I think we all know thats true.

 

Fact is a sorc is the worst char to take down a healer for examble, with no burst (only steady) dps the healer can easely account for your dmg. I have 1v1'd healers a bunch of times to check it out - im a dps sorc - and I get owned everytime. Even some at half health for starters. Our low burst (which is the dmg you want in pvp) makes us medicore at best. When you see all those fine numbers at the end of a game, its because we werent the ones people attacked and we had time to do a steady flow of dps that racked up in the long run.

 

Its not easy being a glass cannon and the lowest burst dmg class at the same time.

 

If you removed the chainlightning instantcast as so many want, we would have a haaaard time even getting our dmg up in the first place.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Drack

The only "fix" needed for sorc/sages is;

 

(1) Grant Resolve on immobilize (which goes for all classes which use the same mechanic as well)

 

(2) Move the talent that grants immobilize on KB further up the tree

 

(3) Slghtly increase the Force cost of some powers

 

 

 

Anything morer than this is simply asking for a freebie-kill on any sorc/sage for people who have serious L2P issues and do not deserve such a kill.

 

You don't deserve a kill as a Sorcerer neither. It takes no skill

You don't deserve a kill as a Sorcerer neither. It takes no skill

 

Nothing requires skill. So nobody deserves any kills.

 

Would make an exciting pvp

Why nerf Sorc/Sage? They are the most balanced classs in the game. There is not one class that doesnt have an advantage over Sorc/Sage unless you want to count the fact that we can kite an equally geared mellee classe to thier death "most" of the time in a straight up 1v1 fight. Bounty hunters can wipe the floor with us at range, Operatives can almost insta kill us (not quite so bad with the nerf), I wont even go into assassins... I think some people might need to play other classes and see what it is really like out there instead of whining about a particular class.

Insta cast TW looks better, running around with your hands in the air. Priceless

 

I have that too.

Is interrupting a 3-sec channel really that hard?

 

 

INTERRUPT FORCE LIGHTNING YES!!!! that solves everything! sorcs dont have any other abilities to compensate for a few seconds like multiple forms of instant CC or bubbles or heals of speed to LOS or a secondary nuke... derp derp derp

INTERRUPT FORCE LIGHTNING YES!!!! that solves everything! sorcs dont have any other abilities to compensate for a few seconds like multiple forms of instant CC or bubbles or heals of speed to LOS or a secondary nuke... derp derp derp

 

Yea! And they are the only class that have more then 1 ability to do dmg! Its so unfair!

do not feed the troll

INTERRUPT FORCE LIGHTNING YES!!!! that solves everything! sorcs dont have any other abilities to compensate for a few seconds like multiple forms of instant CC or bubbles or heals of speed to LOS or a secondary nuke... derp derp derp

 

And here ladies and gentlemen we have a fine specimen of a bad player.'

Newsflash Interupting TK Throw/Force Lightning hits us hard for two reasons:

 

1.)Force Conservation meaning we cannot remain a high force pool and we drain pretty fast when we cannot use TK Throw. Also it does only medicore damage untless you get PS procc.

2.) Our main Burst comes from two sources: Force Lightning/TK Throw and Weaken Mind/Affliction both give us proccs. Both are easily countered either by Interupt or by Dispels. Reducing our chances to get these proccs greatly impacts our burst and overall damage.

 

Furthermore:

 

3.) So which class has long cast times on their CC? Which CC is not instant bar Force Lift/Whirlwind which ironically is a Sage/Sorc spell

4.) You can easily counter Force Speed with nice stuff like Grapple, Slow, Root, Stun and it is not hard to anticipate when they run away.

Hint: They turn away from you while on low health most of the time.

5.) Other spells outside of TKT/FL have either terrible DPS or are expensive.

6.) So other classes cannot do anything while interupted on their main spell? Please get real.

 

So instead of nerdraging here you should start to L2P.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Vales