2/22/2012 -> Can we get an update on where the Combat Log is?

This alone tells me you don't know what you're talking about. You seriously believe the raid group that killed Heroic 25 Ragnaros world first had to have a raid leader announce every mechanic? Or needed DBM to flash their screen when to move? If those people in that raid needed any of those, they'd last about half a second. Plenty of top raiding guilds play vent mid fight, and it's almost dead quiet the entire time. Why? Because these guys know what to do, they don't need a raid leader holding their hand.

Btw since you don't know anything about the fight, there's pretty much nothing on heroic ragnaros that DBM can yell at you for. DBM does things like flash when you're standing in fire, but on that fight, if you're getting hit by mechanics, you're already dead anyway.

You already seem to forget, EQ1 bosses were not instanced (for a long time). If you wanted to kill a boss, you had to kill it first. Of course there were no pugs doing it, you only got to kill the boss once per spawn. Prevent everybody but one raid group from zoning into a raid instance in WoW and *gasp* you'll have the same effect.

It was less accessible because of gear requirements (especially SoL for healers) and attunements, that's not challenge, that's tedium. Btw I highly highly doubt 20% of the population killed heroic ragnaros before the nerfs.

Also you seem to be ignoring the first 4 years of EQ as well. Remember those days? When playing a healer took such extreme skill as hitting a single button every x seconds? Oh man, moderns gamers could never possess that level of skill, hitting like two buttons per minute total. How about bard? Oh yeah afk resist songs. Look at them skills!

Aren't you the same guy who was arguing about this being a game? Do you know what a game is? It isn't the things you described there, and that's the reason why EQ now has like 3 people playing while WoW has 10 million.

Ignoring for a moment that nothing in WoW can really be macro'd together except for cooldowns and that every rotation takes more than 2 buttons, shall we go back to the cleric again? 2 buttons every minute, hotdamn look at that skill. Actually I guess it's technically 4 since you have to hit sit after your complete heal, this is getting pretty complex, not sure anyone could learn that these days.

You remember your glory days of EQ, but you just have rose tinted glasses. I had my epic weapon, yeah I was proud of it at the time, but looking back at it, it was just a giant mindless camp fest, there was no skill involved. Remember the cleric epic? I sure do, I helped camp it. This is your idea of harder? Being forced to camp a boss for 3+ days straight? Yeah right. Like it or not, WoW has made the most difficult raids an MMO has seen. Difficult because of the actual challenge level involved in it. It took them hundreds of hours of actual attempts to get the boss down, not hundreds of hours farming loot or afking at spawns for days on end.

This, pretty much. It sucks, but its true. Kinda irritates me.

Are you a person also that says EQ1 raid enocunters were challenging difficulty wise?

LOL @ people who think macros inevitably lead to two button mash fests.

Here's my wow rotation:

1. Use Tiger's Fury if it is available, you have less than 35 energy, and Stampede is not up
2. Use Berserk if it is available, and Tiger’s Fury is up.
2a. (4T11 only) Use Mangle if Strength of the Panther is about to fall off.
3. Use Feral Faerie Fire if it (or equivalent buff) is not already on the target
4. Use Mangle if it (or equivalent buff) is not already on the target
5. Use Ravage if Stampede buff is about to fade.
6. Use Ferocious Bite if Blood in the Water is active, and you have 5 Combo Points or Rip is about to fade
7. Use Shred if it will extend Rip
6. Use Rip if you have 5 Combo Points and Rip is not up or has less than 2 seconds remaining
9. Use Ferocious Bite if Berserk is up, you have 5 Combo Points, at least 5 seconds remaining on Rip, and at lease 3 seconds remaing on Savage Roar.
10. Use Rake if Tiger’s Fury is up and existing Rake has less than 9 seconds remaining
11. Use Rake if Rake is not up or the existing Rake has less than 3 seconds remaining
12. Use Shred if Omen of Clarity is up
13. Use Savage Roar if it is down or about to fade
14. Use Ferocious Bite if you have 5 Combo Points, Rip has at least 14 seconds remaining, and Savage Roar has at least 10 seconds remaining (Optional)
15. Use Ravage if Stampede is up, Tiger’s Fury is up or coming out of cooldown soon, and Omen of Clarity is down
15a. (4T11 only) Use Mangle if Strength of the Panther is not at 3 stacks
16. Use Shred if Tiger’s Fury or Berserk are up
17. Use Shred if you need combo points for a finisher soon (<= 3 sec)
18. Use Shred if Tiger’s Fury will come off cooldown soon (<= 3 sec)
19. Use Shred if you have more than 85 energy
20. Conserve energy

I parse top 50 on world of logs regularly so I have this down pretty well. NONE of this can be macroed because it's a priority rotation dependent on too many factors, I have it all keybound. My core rotation spans all my number keys up to and including "=" and all my function keys are bound with my lesser used abilities like my potions, charge, defensive cd's etc.

Macros do not equal 2 button rotations unless developers fail at designing rotations complex enough to make it impossible to do so.

you're good a playing a video game.

Grats

The end game in WoW was pretty crazy during BC. You needed to run raids with people that could get the job done. thats the reason why the combat log was important. Why would you set up a 20 man raid and have a bunch of people do all the work and have a few slack asses sit in the back and collect the gear. If you were not capable of of putting in during the raid then you sat out. Its about as simple as that. Why would you want 3 or so people in there doing nothing making it harder for the rest to clear the content. its not being elite its just being sensible

Cant wait till we get both these things and Chewy over there cries himself to sleep.

Just because we're getting a combat log and damage meters doesn't mean we're going to be able to see the damage output of other people. As of this point we know they said they intend to keep the community in mind that doesn't want meters. Meters may only be available in raids. They may only show people that allow it by a particular checkbox in preferences. It might only show ourselves. At this point we don't have enough information on their particular implementation of meters and combat logs. We just know they are coming.

God forbid they have fun...

I heard from an insider that it will be available when its ready.