Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

2/22/2012 -> Can we get an update on where the Combat Log is?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
2/22/2012 -> Can we get an update on where the Combat Log is?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.23.2012 , 01:55 PM | #341
Quote: Originally Posted by EternalFinality View Post
I'll pay $0.50 extra per month for a combat log.

Also, what car doesn't come with an air conditioner standard? This game was supposed to be a Lexus, not a Kia.
If you look at the sticker of pretty much any car (maybe not the highest end) you will notice that it is an option that they have 'already included' and factored into the price.

It's only been that way since air conditioning was introduced - they just bury the cost and have to special order the car without.

Vydor_HC's Avatar


Vydor_HC
02.23.2012 , 01:56 PM | #342
Quote: Originally Posted by GavinPatterson View Post
i am utterly shocked about how much crap the op has suffered from asking a question.
1 - his opinion is not everyone's opinion - we all know this
2 - these forums are mostly about bashing or congratulation the game - its hard to look through this forum and see something like this
3- hes asking - does anyone have any news links or news that can address his question?
This is a pent up debate that have veered very far from the OP.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.23.2012 , 01:57 PM | #343
Quote: Originally Posted by Menisong View Post
This is 100% false. If this were a single player game...possibly. But seeing how 16 man operations is a group based team activity...false. The group should also have tools to maximize and improve as a whole.
How about this?

You can have your combat parser and I can have an option to 'opt-out' which causes my information not to stream into your log?

MPagano's Avatar


MPagano
02.23.2012 , 01:58 PM | #344
Quote: Originally Posted by Chewpaco View Post
Well we can add you to the list of people that live in an idealistic, la la land, that is incapable of connecting the dots between the lessons that MMO history has taught us.

Like it our not - BioWare has a reponsibility to provide it's player base with the most enjoyable community it can possibly help sustain. They are the governing body in charge of making the rules. They provide the tools. Any additional tools they introduce to an enviroment that has an effect on the community is their responsiblity.

Entrust this power to the people? Again - learn your lessons from MMO history. These same people have proven on a whole that these tools cannot be trusted to them to be used responsibly. There are solutions.

There is only 1 viable argument for having a combat parser in this game: Self improvement to maximize builds and rotations.

There is 1 viable solution: Combat dummies with a built in meter on them only.

If they open this game up like the Wild, Wild West - and allow every idiot in the world to carry a loaded weapon in public, there will be social chaos. As opposed to what we have now - a civil, mindful, community.
I think you're the only person who was in class on the day they taught the lesson that MMOs with combat parsers necessarily have poor communities.

It's naiive to think that by withholding from the community a system that allows them to analyze and dissect the developer is going to subdue the inherent drive of a community to analyze and dissect. They're simply going to continue to speculate and grab at straws to provide the illusion of creating meaningful debates on class effectiveness. It will destroy the community.

Your attitude here could be applied to adolescent sex education and would translate into hiding all the condoms in the world and hoping kids dont bump uglies like jakc rabbits. It happens whether you acknowledge it or not. The developer should be aware of this fact and take steps to enable it in a constructive way. Ignoring it is only going to leave the sheep wandering.

Chewpaco's Avatar


Chewpaco
02.23.2012 , 01:58 PM | #345
Quote: Originally Posted by MPagano View Post
Quite the contrary. A combat log will provide an objective means for evaluating the effectiveness of classes/specs against other classes/specs. Furthermore, it will serve to falsify inaccurate claims that are thrown around as well as provide a basis for a player to reflect on their own effectiveness.

The animosity isn't latent (look that word up, by the way). It's clearly frothing. The dismal state of this game's community is glaringly apparent. It's all due to the fact that speculation is fueling perceptions on both sides of the line. People want to make claims about this class or that spec. Once there's a combat log, it will be possible to overwrite the emotions with empyrical data.

Will there still be animosity and whining? Of course, but it will be much easier for other players not to rise up against those attitudes. They can take comfort in being able to accurately assess a claims validity.

Do you really believe that tension born out of a lack of information is going to be exacerbated by clear and authoritative data that can quantify the very arguments through which that tension manifests? Oh dear.
You articulate your points well. For that I applaud you. However - let's be clear about something here. I absolutely 100% understand the value of a combat parser / combat logs. I understand the information gleened from them can be extremely valuable. As a former raid leader myself - I used them all the time to make quicker, more concise evaluations on encounter strategies. If this were the only effect combat parses had - I would be all for them.

Back to the real world. These games are filled with people who abuse this tool. It is proven from game after game that people absolutley LOVE to abuse this tool.

The only way to solve the problem? Offer the information you seek about personal improvment on practice dummies only.

It solves the problem. People looking to use the tool responsibly have it, and can make the necessary adjustment/improvments to their characters. People that have the inclination to abuse it - do not have it at their disposal in a group setting.

Menisong's Avatar


Menisong
02.23.2012 , 01:59 PM | #346
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
How about this?

You can have your combat parser and I can have an option to 'opt-out' which causes my information not to stream into your log?
100% agree. As I have said play with like minded players.

G_Vega's Avatar


G_Vega
02.23.2012 , 02:00 PM | #347
I am getting a little tired of asking "what the hell killed me?" I am honestly amazed that a customizable UI and combat log were not included in the launch. My other MMO (not WoW) had those when I started 6 years ago. It's a shame that those things were considered unimportant.

On a side note, I keep seeing how combat logs killed WoW. I never played WoW, so I am confused as to what the problem is/was. Could someone please elaborate?

I mean, if people are concerned that it will lead to WoW type behavior, then the solution to me would be to implement a log that is unlike WoW's log. Too much of this game is already copied from WoW from what I see, maybe they should try to emulate another game with the combat log.

EternalFinality's Avatar


EternalFinality
02.23.2012 , 02:00 PM | #348
Quote: Originally Posted by BlownSi View Post
I can list a few, rather high performance cars that did not come with A/C. Also, your analogy is rediculous.
After 5 years of development you expected them to come out with a Model T then?

Bioware: You can have any color you want as long as it's black!

That's the state of mods at this point

EternalFinality's Avatar


EternalFinality
02.23.2012 , 02:02 PM | #349
Quote:
On a side note, I keep seeing how combat logs killed WoW. I never played WoW, so I am confused as to what the problem is/was. Could someone please elaborate?
Considering they were there from the start and were used to make some of WoW's most famous mods like threat meters, I can say factually that combat logs did not kill WoW - they helped to MAKE WoW.

MPagano's Avatar


MPagano
02.23.2012 , 02:03 PM | #350
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
How about this?

You can have your combat parser and I can have an option to 'opt-out' which causes my information not to stream into your log?
That sounds like a great solution, actually. But I can't help but wonder what difference this makes. If you don't care about the parser, just don't pay attention to it. What does it matter who sees your information? Your concern for the eyes on your combat data suggests that combat data is something that concerns you. So which is it? Is there no point in a combat parser or isn't there? You must realize that if you blocked your data, you would be even more susceptible to the elitists out there. Pleading the fifth is worse than letting people see your innocent for themselves. If someone is going to judge you for bad data, you can be damn sure they're going to judge you for no data.