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Mara Jade


Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
03.07.2012 , 02:08 AM | #111
Well, as far as killing off movie characters in the ExU books after, Crix Madine was the first I saw die (Darksaber). It caught me a bit off guard, and he did die a fairly useless death for a spymaster. His infiltration team was caught with their pants down. These things happen. His death didn't tick me off as much as Mara.

As for Chewie, he went out as only Chewie could, and R.A. Salvatore did the ol' Wook justice, imo.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
03.07.2012 , 09:52 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by Lurkz View Post
It was kind of a stupid death too, imo. Made Mara out to be waaaay stupider than we all know she was.
I disagree. I feel it showed an emotional side of her that we always knew and loved. It is fitting no one could really kill her in a true fight but rather she was murdered via an assassin's tool and a trick (ironic considering she was an assassin at one point). The real tragedy is that Jacen had to do it and even he didn't get to live. The kind of guilt he would have had, had he been converted back, would have made for a very interesting character. I loved them both though and though that if someone would kill mara, it is best it was Jacen and not that evil sith wannabe chick. Mara vs Vestara would be interesting to...
I know if you look deep into your heart- which is currently all over that tree- you'll find a way to forgive me.

Aww, geez you look like a puppy! A blonde, eviscerated puppy!

-Alucard

Roccobb's Avatar


Roccobb
03.07.2012 , 10:10 PM | #113
I remember the first time I read the first book of NJO. I was actually stunned and upset they killed Chewie. I had to re-read the part a couple times for it to sink in that he was really dead.

By the time MJ died, although I was stunned, I didn't really feel the death. She was one of my favorite characters, and it was just like, oh yeah, she died.
Spoiler


As for the same characters doing the saving, I kind of agree. Luke is the Grand Master. With the force, no, he can't live forever. But he can live longer and be stronger than we can. I have no doubt that at 60 or so he is still in great shape. And as the grand master, he would have his hands in galactic affairs.

Han Solo, I don't see as being able to do as much as he can at his age. He is old. He does not have the force to support him. I can see very soon him dying a heroic death. Han Solo dying of old age just doesn't cut it for me.

MustrumRidcully's Avatar


MustrumRidcully
03.08.2012 , 02:52 AM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by Roccobb View Post
I remember the first time I read the first book of NJO. I was actually stunned and upset they killed Chewie. I had to re-read the part a couple times for it to sink in that he was really dead.

By the time MJ died, although I was stunned, I didn't really feel the death. She was one of my favorite characters, and it was just like, oh yeah, she died.
Spoiler


As for the same characters doing the saving, I kind of agree. Luke is the Grand Master. With the force, no, he can't live forever. But he can live longer and be stronger than we can. I have no doubt that at 60 or so he is still in great shape. And as the grand master, he would have his hands in galactic affairs.
He is the grand master and has to teach his Jedi. He has to predict the future and prepare the order for a time without him. I think there is every reason to see him in more of a mentor and administrator role than an active combattant. If his force visions let him see a issue where he must intervene himself because he is the only one strong enough, then he can. But not all the time.

Quote:
Han Solo, I don't see as being able to do as much as he can at his age. He is old. He does not have the force to support him. I can see very soon him dying a heroic death. Han Solo dying of old age just doesn't cut it for me.
Han Solo can as well turn into a more political or administrative goal. Use his network of friends and allies, similar to how Karrde does. Since he has kids, I may be okay with a heroic death eventually, but why not live his life happily together with Leia?

FatherOblivion's Avatar


FatherOblivion
03.08.2012 , 03:13 AM | #115
I can't agree with Zahn's assessment that Star Wars characters ought to have the shield of invulnerability around them. It hasn't made the novels any worse for the wear with so many major character deaths (although I agree with the general mood that Mara Jade's death was poorly executed).

He argues that the films support the idea but what I think he misses is how contrived Return of the Jedi is for forcing that outcome (yes I'm ripping the films, I know it's not winning me too many fans). The whole film seems to be jumping through hoops to give us the ultra-heroic/mega happy ending when the previous films never implied such a thing was inevitable. In fact, the set up of the first two films indicated a much darker ending and the insistence by Lucas on this new direction, in addition to a few other factors, eventually led to Gary Kurtz' sad departure from the saga. His absence is rather obvious when one looks at the stark quality difference between Jedi and Empire.

So for all my admiration of Zahn, I can't see his point. I like his books; in fact, I rate Outbound Flight as the very best of all EU novels (I've read over 60 of them, but not all of them). But if his formula were always applied then the Expanded Universe of Star Wars would be a cold, sterile, lifeless saccharine void. It already suffers from the main three stifling the growth of the next generation of characters. It would only be worse if nobody important could be killed off.

Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
03.08.2012 , 05:07 AM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
I disagree. I feel it showed an emotional side of her that we always knew and loved. It is fitting no one could really kill her in a true fight but rather she was murdered via an assassin's tool and a trick (ironic considering she was an assassin at one point). The real tragedy is that Jacen had to do it and even he didn't get to live. The kind of guilt he would have had, had he been converted back, would have made for a very interesting character. I loved them both though and though that if someone would kill mara, it is best it was Jacen and not that evil sith wannabe chick. Mara vs Vestara would be interesting to...
No, she was pretty freaking stupid in that series as a whole.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
The Orange Pixel is the REAL Sith Emperor
I don't need luck, I've got ammo - Urdnot Grunt
Remember 4/22/2011. A day that shall live in infamy.

priest's Avatar


priest
03.14.2012 , 01:30 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by FatherOblivion View Post
I can't agree with Zahn's assessment that Star Wars characters ought to have the shield of invulnerability around them. It hasn't made the novels any worse for the wear with so many major character deaths (although I agree with the general mood that Mara Jade's death was poorly executed).

He argues that the films support the idea but what I think he misses is how contrived Return of the Jedi is for forcing that outcome (yes I'm ripping the films, I know it's not winning me too many fans). The whole film seems to be jumping through hoops to give us the ultra-heroic/mega happy ending when the previous films never implied such a thing was inevitable. In fact, the set up of the first two films indicated a much darker ending and the insistence by Lucas on this new direction, in addition to a few other factors, eventually led to Gary Kurtz' sad departure from the saga. His absence is rather obvious when one looks at the stark quality difference between Jedi and Empire.

So for all my admiration of Zahn, I can't see his point. I like his books; in fact, I rate Outbound Flight as the very best of all EU novels (I've read over 60 of them, but not all of them). But if his formula were always applied then the Expanded Universe of Star Wars would be a cold, sterile, lifeless saccharine void. It already suffers from the main three stifling the growth of the next generation of characters. It would only be worse if nobody important could be killed off.
I understand what you're saying; however there are many good stories where the heroes don't die; and so I agree with Zahn's assessment. I think that the overly heroic, looking at the world through rose colored glasses is what strummed the collective awesome chord in the Star Wars generation. It is representative of the naivete of youth and so it is easy to relate to. I'm looking for blasters and lightsabers, good guys and bad guys. The story loses its charm when you take it to the darker, more serious places. As I've said before, I don't mind those places, I think that they should be explored; but I believe that Star Wars, in its purest sense, is a space-western where the good guy ALWAYS rides into the sunset.
╬╬█]∎⌉()[█][\▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀╬┌ị∈-⋂Dị ∃ị└∈▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀)

Ybini's Avatar


Ybini
03.14.2012 , 01:43 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by priest View Post
Killing her....who really thought that was a good idea?
And Chewy? I don't care how much I like him as a writer, that was just bunk.

Annedromeda's Avatar


Annedromeda
03.15.2012 , 12:29 AM | #119
I haven't read that particular series, but I am the 5th book into Fate of the Jedi, which I am enjoying an awful lot.

In my opinion, I think even if we feel that we are "close" to fictional characters, it is important to kill them in literature (if they aren't immortal that is). In one way, it can sub-consciously remind us of our own mortality, and as some have said before, even heroes die too. Death often opens arenas in literature that would have otherwise not been open. It is a natural part of life everywhere, and should exist in books too.

I'm not going to debate on the quality of writing or the supposed personality defects of said writers, as I haven't met any of them. All I know is that I enjoy reading, and whatever comes with the roller-coaster ride that is that book, death and all.
When a man dies, a swarm of highly charged energies deserts the body and goes out into space entering another cycle of life. These energies have an IMMORTAL nature. -Thomas Edison

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
03.15.2012 , 09:19 AM | #120
IMO, Karen Travis is a stain on Star Wars, and if they can figure out a way to say "This never happened due to the sheer insanity of the author and the fact that she's a total *****, we're bringing Mara back!" That would be cool.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"