This game is TWO MONTHS old.

Nobody is forcing you to read, reply or in any way engage with my posts. Equally I could say to you "well if you like the game go and play it rather than wasting your time on the forums." Bioware isn't going to break down into tears if I tell them I think their game was launched too early and they don't need you to protect them for the big bad internet trolls.

Equally you still aren't answering my questions with anything other than "don't like it then leave." If you're going to tell people their opinions are wrong because the game is new then at what point does the game stop being new and those opinions become valid?

Funny how a game 2 months old can cause players on a certain server to stop War Zone'ing for a whole month. Hey! thats like half the lifespan of this game! A whole month of no war zones.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=322003

I love this game and I won't be quitting, but the argument that it's only two months old is wrong.

It's been in development for years and I agree with the people who are shocked that this game didn't have all the standards an MMO nowadays have.

Such as a customisable UI.

Not quite. You're on the right track to a certain extent with the point you're making, but it doesn't carry through definitively. Here's why.


They wouldn't have to reverse engineer other games to playtest them, experience the systems people love and hate alike and get a firsthand feel for what MMO gamers are using, liking, hating and -why-.

From Blizzard, they'll never get WoW's telemetries on user data, but there is -nothing- stopping them from logging in and giving it a good play as it is -right now-, to get a good feel for what is being used, what is working and what things look like at the ground level -right now-.

Yeah, it's like the lead engineer of a new car going and sitting in and test driving the successful competition. Actually, physically using it themselves and then contrasting that information against all the data the mathemeticians compellingly present based on their near total lack of social psychology qualifications that might make the math's contexts relevant to the intention of user satisfaction.


--


Here's an example of where they clearly didn't burn test things: speeders.

How bloody underwhelming. 10% incremental increases on speed per rank and unquantified improvements on durability under attack?

Why didn't they give speeders a HP total that you can see while riding it?

Why did they keep the speed increases so small?

Simple answer: Because you won't see how useful a selling point something like a visibly superior HP total on your money sink vehicles might be if you never use such things in your own intended contexts for use. And in the case of the fractional speed increases, it offers a numerical benefit that doesn't drastically alter zone completion times beyond a predictive median with an absolute minimum time investment per zone.


Here's another example: The absolutely feature-void static UI.

Nobody, and I mean -NOBODY- that's ever actually played a modern MMO extensively and even half-heartedly tried to excell in one is going to find the release state of TOR's UI acceptable. To hail back to the car analogy, it'd be like that new car manufacturer releasing one car with no power windows even as an option, no air conditioning, no stereo (and not even a aperture to install your own), bench seats with an absolute minimum of functional placeholder-spec polish and plain white upholstery without so much as a single color option.


--


Are they working on more robust UI features? Statedly so, but who in their right mind takes their new car to market before even basic user functionality and quality of life features are ready, especially when that car is priced and designed to appeal to the same demographic as some of the most feature-rich, functionality-packed and QoL-enabled offerings in not just the demographic, but in the industry period?

You take a car in that state to market and you'd be damned lucky if you didn't get some enraged person that believed your years of hyping your product running you over with your own prototype, as that's all it would essentially be in that state.

In MMO translation, yeah, it's a different industry. Yeah, they're statedly working on not just UI improvements, but functionality and QoL features across the boards.

Nobody's disputing that they're working on those things. Frankly, I don't think anybody of a reasonably appointed opinion would go so far as to say they didn't know that such things were important and would be in absolute demand in the first place.


--


Doesn't change the fact that somebody, probably EA mandating a release-or-die date, dropped the bag.

I can't see Bioware failing to grasp basic premises of what a game should include.

It looks a lot like they didn't ask the right questions, or interpret the answers given correctly, or seek their info from the right places and sources...but more likely still?

More likely than that Bioware pulled a hundred amateur mistakes out of their hat and slapped themselves upside the head with every single one of them?

They were rushed and had to get something that could be driven at all on the floor right now, or heads would start rolling.

And it's really sad, from a professional vantage point. Bioware is left holding the 'Kick Me' sign when, in all probability, they should probably be congratulated for getting their 'vehicle' out the door in the working order it released in under the all too probable conditions of dictation the fatcats upstairs demanded.

Still doesn't change the fact that the vehicle hit the market in such a barebones state that anyone -not- expecting a certain degree of backlash and outrage probably lives so deep in the closet of delusion that they're having adventures in Narnia.

Because there is no answer... It's all subjective... I never said it wasn't. Hence the "get over it, or leave" attitude cause you're just grinding your gears.

Like i said, it's not the fact that the game doesn't live up to your expectations that burns you, it's that some people actually enjoy the game despite your gripes.

I've been in a few launches and played quite a few MMOs (too many, really). In my opinion, this is the best launch I've seen in my very limited experience with MMO launches. In regards to the other MMOs I've played, it's better in many ways and worse in some other ways.

None of that impacts my decision to play, though. If the game is fun enough to warrant a monthly fee, I'll pay it. If it's not, I won't. That's it, for me.

But it's a little silly (IMO) to tell people they shouldn't compare this game to its current competitor. ToR isn't competing with WoW 7 years ago. You can't quit TOR and go play WoW Vanilla. TOR is competing with the version of WoW that is currently available to players. It's silly to ask them to NOT compare the game to its current competition.

For me, TOR is far more enjoyable than WoW was. For the record, I hated WoW. Played it for a week and quit. Hated the art style (among other things). But to someone that loves WoW, they have to decide which game gets their money, so why on earth would they make that decision based on a game that no longer exists?

Bottom line, if they like WoW - as it is today - better than they like TOR - as it is today - they have every right to say so. And they have every right to go play the game that's better.

TOR would be idiotic to try to compete with a game as it was 7 years ago. They are competing with a game that exists today. In my opinion, they're winning by leaps and bounds. To others, they are not. But the only version of WoW that should be compared to TOR is the version that is currently competing with TOR. And that's the version that's out right now.

Hardly; the more competition in the MMO market the better as it results in higher quality due to them having to compete with one another. If people want to enjoy the game then that's fine and I'm not going to say that they're wrong. It's people like you who tell others that they're wrong when they criticise the game that's the problem because it always results in blind loyalty and factionalism. I haven't played a single MMO where there weren't at least some people so enamoured with it that they defended it at all costs.

This game has problems. Bioware has had all of Beta and three months since launch to fix them. Yet what's actually changed since launch? Well there's a 50 PvP bracket which somehow manages to be even more imbalanced than the 10-49 one. The UI flashes a lot more than it used to and most worringly of all classes have been nerfed meaning they prioratise cosmetic PvP balance rather than core issues like faction imbalance.

I've already said the game is average but nothing special and people can disagree if they want. However there's a distinct lack of game plan on Biowares behalf; are they focusing on content? balance? bugs? They just seem to focus on short term patches rather than long term goals. I guess that's fine if you only play a few hours a week but for a lot of people they wanted a new MMO they could call home and play reguarly - this game simply isn't it.

remind u, today is year 2012.
dont live in the past.

Except that what you get when you log onto WoW right now, is somewhat contraversial. Some people believe that LFG and LFR have ruined that game. There are some that post that think addons/macros/combat logs/dps meters should never be a part of this game. I'm not in that crowd, but I have read their posts.

I can understand BW taking a cautious approach at launch...

I imagine that if you ask the people who think LFG ruined the game that what they actually dislike is the X-realm aspect of it. People say LFG ruined server communities, well no, the fact that it grouped you with people you would never meet again ruined the community. If a server wide LFG was put in why would that impact on the social aspect of the game? If you meet someone you like add them to your friends and all of a sudden you get groups that much faster.

I don't see why people would be adverse to mods. Maybe the "must have 11k DPS" aspect put them off but the customisable UI is pretty basic.