Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Operative usefull dps?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Operative usefull dps?

Polimeris's Avatar


Polimeris
03.13.2012 , 08:11 AM | #21
I find it hilarious that a thread discussing OP/Scoundrel dps ends up discussing whether other class will get their buff next patch.
.
Dandy : Hectic, Jeem, Vrulmugueunne, Gaour, Gorgoth, Volkaresh.

Trimanir's Avatar


Trimanir
03.13.2012 , 09:02 AM | #22
what Operative/Scrapper need for dps is a stacking debuff. impossible to use in PVP or trash situation where they are aleady good. but good on bosses fight that takes 5m.

Something like -1% armor duration 15 second stacking up to 20 times.
Server : Lord Adraas
Trimanir Level 50 Sawbone (retiered), Biochemist
Mavella Level 50 Commando, Cybertech

Ewgal's Avatar


Ewgal
03.13.2012 , 11:05 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Dissentus View Post
I'm gonna laugh if operatives somehow come out as one of the best dps classes when damage meters are put in. Seriously, just play the class you enjoy. If you aren't in a hardcore progression raiding guild that is going for world firsts, then it shouldn't even be a concern.

I thought Bioware were just going to add some form of combat kill log, and not WoW style dmg meters? Meters are overrated anyway, the goal is taking in a group good enough to achieve a group goal, e.g. kill hardmode boss in ops group.
May the farce be with you

Howbadisbad's Avatar


Howbadisbad
03.13.2012 , 01:25 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Dissentus View Post
I'm gonna laugh if operatives somehow come out as one of the best dps classes when damage meters are put in. Seriously, just play the class you enjoy. If you aren't in a hardcore progression raiding guild that is going for world firsts, then it shouldn't even be a concern.
Operatives are far too limited by large cooldowns and energy starvation for this to even by plausible.

We can dream though.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jibbie View Post
If one class can perform better than other classes in a greater number of rolls, than that class is not balanced.
You defended that Operatives can perform well, but if an Assassin can do the same things but better, than Operatives are not balanced. "Succeeding" is irrelevant.

Spatzimaus's Avatar


Spatzimaus
03.13.2012 , 03:27 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Trimanir View Post
what Operative/Scrapper need for dps is a stacking debuff. impossible to use in PVP or trash situation where they are aleady good. but good on bosses fight that takes 5m.
The answer is obvious: change Acid Blade from an armor penetration buff on us, to an armor rating debuff on our target. We've suggested this in quite a few threads already.

In 1-on-1 fights (PvP or strong/elites in PvE), there's no practical difference other than the fact that a PvP opponent can use his debuff remover (if any) to get rid of it.
In 1-on-many fights (trash PvE) it'd be worse than the current setup, since the buff currently carries over to your next target (as it's a buff on you). So yes, we'd be worse here, but honestly, this is something we don't have a problem with.
But in those many-on-1 fights in endgame Operations and Flashpoints, it'd make a HUGE difference. Raids would instantly want a Conceal Op, just for his ability to debuff the armor of the boss to help the other dozen DPSers' attacks. And it'd be a "sustainable" DPS boost, which is something we sorely lack.

Maybe, for balance reasons, change it from a -30% armor debuff for 15s into a smaller, longer-lasting one (say, -10% for 30s) that stacks with itself up to 5 times. That way, two Conceal Ops won't conflict with each other so much, and even a single Conceal would have a reason to use Acid Blade more than once per 15s.

Now, obviously that helps Conceals and not Lethalities. The main thing Lethality needs to be a good raid DPSer is a way to generate TAs at range. For this, I've previously suggested altering the Counterstrike talent (Lethality 5) to also give a point of TA 50/100% of the time when you use Countermeasures. That gives you a 45s-cooldown ability to instantly generate a TA regardless of range (and it even works out of combat) once you're level 30+; besides just being good that way, it's tied to an ability that you'll be using constantly in raids anyway, and it'd make Countermeasures useful in PvP as well. I'd also suggested changing the Vanish talent (Lethality 4) to reduce the cooldown of Countermeasures by 7.5/15s like it does the other clickies, which'd reduce it to a 30s cooldown. One free TA per 30s won't completely remove the TA problem, but it'd go a LONG way towards making the Lethality spec viable when combined with other TA generators.

Polimeris's Avatar


Polimeris
03.14.2012 , 03:28 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Spatzimaus View Post
The main thing Lethality needs to be a good raid DPSer is a way to generate TAs at range. For this, I've previously suggested altering the Counterstrike talent (Lethality 5) to also give a point of TA 50/100% of the time when you use Countermeasures. That gives you a 45s-cooldown ability to instantly generate a TA regardless of range (and it even works out of combat) once you're level 30+; besides just being good that way, it's tied to an ability that you'll be using constantly in raids anyway, and it'd make Countermeasures useful in PvP as well. I'd also suggested changing the Vanish talent (Lethality 4) to reduce the cooldown of Countermeasures by 7.5/15s like it does the other clickies, which'd reduce it to a 30s cooldown. One free TA per 30s won't completely remove the TA problem, but it'd go a LONG way towards making the Lethality spec viable when combined with other TA generators.
I disagree with your opening statement there. Even if we would transform in a "10 meter range class", it wouls still be beneficial for us to use blaster whip and backblast because of the raw damage input. Of course, your suggestion would help. But it won't solve the TA starvation issue of lethality.

How can lethality benefit from TA ?
-: with a +10 energy bonus every 20 seconds with pugnacity.
-: with its hardest hitting attack

How can lethality generate TA ?
-: opener from stealth (between 0 and 3 per combat)
-: blaster whip every 5-6 seconds depending if you want to waste 0,5 seconds doing nothing for the gcd to come out.

Currently, it's a waste of TA to use pugnacity every 20 seconds because 10 energy is weak compared to the rarity of TA and the power of wounding shot. We don't have enough TA to refresh it every 20 seconds and we should.

YOur idea of Countermeasure giving TA is nice, but it would have to be on a 20 sec cd. 30 is still too much.
Another popular solutions is to have TA proc from vital shot as on SRMP.
Hell ! We wouldn't even need an internal cd on TA proc, as our only way to spend a TA is by using wounding shot, which cost a lot of energy.
.
Dandy : Hectic, Jeem, Vrulmugueunne, Gaour, Gorgoth, Volkaresh.

Vid-szhite's Avatar


Vid-szhite
03.15.2012 , 12:39 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by zaknaphein View Post
Only problem is they said legacy unlocks will not affect anything but situations with ur companions. Additionally unlocked abilities will be on heavy cooldowns.
Not true. The devs have specifically said the Class Buff is always a part of you, so you can give it to your Ops group. Everything else requires the 20min cooldown.

Trimanir's Avatar


Trimanir
03.23.2012 , 08:55 AM | #28
Only 2 dps can perform spot healing to help healers on tight moment, one of them can combat rez. That one is aslo the only class able to use out of combat rez in combat, (after disapearing act)

DPS is a bit lower, but they have a use.
Server : Lord Adraas
Trimanir Level 50 Sawbone (retiered), Biochemist
Mavella Level 50 Commando, Cybertech

Ruzi's Avatar


Ruzi
04.05.2012 , 05:45 AM | #29
People writing in this thread are just wrong.
Operative dps is very competitive as long as you specc lethality.
Concealment is pretty weak in operations though, due to positional and melee range requirement and therefor loss of dps-time.

I know cause I play one in operations, and my dps is top notch. In addition I bring a combat ress and can help out with healing if needed.
Guess a lot of you will argue that there's no dps-meters in the game so I couldn't know and that I'm carried by the other dps-ers and not pulling my own weight.

Being able to tell if you pull out a lot of dps aint that hard.
I'm fully capable of killing my own juggernaut in no time when doing infernal council on nightmare difficulty, and I'm often finished first of the dpsers.
If the tank dies or is mind trapped, carbonited or somhow looses aggro I usually find myself having aggro (due to high dps), and Im not talking about the start of the fight.

I suspect you guys never did any operations with an lethality operative, if you did any ops at all, cause what you suggest simply ain't true. Dps operatives performs great in ops.

Valexandria's Avatar


Valexandria
04.05.2012 , 11:52 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Trimanir View Post
Only 2 dps can perform spot healing to help healers on tight moment, one of them can combat rez. That one is aslo the only class able to use out of combat rez in combat, (after disapearing act)

DPS is a bit lower, but they have a use.
Commandos and Mercs now have a combat rez.
Quote: Originally Posted by HanzoV View Post
Because if Jedi were Kryptonians (Superman) IA Operatives would be stealthy Batman with a Kryptonite shiv.