People who ninja for their companions

Yes.

Oh, so you're fine with people rolling need on loot that they want for their companions. Good to know.

suuure it was.

Well if everyone did that / if there were no problems with that, then this topic would never come up. Although yes, you have a point, not everyone is proactive enough to tell everyone about how they want the loot to work.

And It also comes down to how the loot geared on the person who received affected his/her performance. A knife drops for agents. There is a sniper and an operative. If I were a sniper, I'd let the operative have it most likely, as I benefit less from knives than the operative - of course assuming our starting gear prior to the drop was the same.

Analogies are great tools, but in arguments, when someone uses one, the topic of conversations generally goes into the details of the analogy and strays from the real issue. I'm not saying yours is off the mark, it's just I don't generally pay 'em much attention in a debate.

What are you trying to do, man? Take away his "I Win" button? What anyone thinks age has to do with the topic is beyond me. I guess it's like "I'll impress everyone with my credentials and they will see things my way."

I thought it was only the 13 year olds that constantly obsessed over calling everyone a "kid". Or whipper-snapper, as the case may be.

I think he was saying that analogies - even perfect analogies - will be picked apart. No matter how good the analogy is, the result is 5 pages of debate about the details of the analogy instead of the point the analogy was making. "Okay, taking that analogy a step further..."

It's the same with a few happy words. Never ever ever use "Fact" as a one word sentence to make the previous sentence have more substance.

Never accuse someone of using a "straw man" argument, even if they are using one. In all my MMO days, I've never seen a situation where using the words "straw man" ended well.

The same goes for the phrases "logical fallacy", "that's YOUR opinion", or "Thanks for proving my point."

Sorry for the derail. Back to the regularly scheduled bickering.

As server populations mature and the community gets to know one another more, those who think that they are entitled, whether they can technically do it or not, to roll need for companions over player characterts will be ostracized and shunned from the pug communities on a server, and quite possibly within their own guild, and very quickly find themselves on the outside looking in because of their actions.

That stigma will last long after the usefulness of that gear for ones companion.

I suggest the smug people that do this think long and hard about this situation.

What you're saying here does not have anything to do with rolling need for a companion.

When someone does that, it's one real life player rolling against another real life player. Neither of the real life players trump each other.

So whether a real player trumps an npc isn't relevant.

one of the real life players will win the loot. In no case can an NPC trump the real life player... it's simply not possible.

Yes, the ones who say "no, I don't care why you want it, it matches what I want so you shouldn't even be allowed to roll on it" ...

-nods-

That's how I view it too. Looting arguments can be the worst of any, man I've seen some real doozies in my time. I just put it all behind me now and let people loot how they want...it's not really that big of a deal to me. But yeah, make sure you know what you're getting into when you group.

It's a whole lot deeper than that I feel.

BW gave us a mechanic, which when used, allows us to level at some predetermined speed. Additionally, they added so much reliance on that mechanic, that some people, rightly feel more attached to the mechanic than they do the character.

In some cases, players feel their PC is better played by being geared first and others feel their companion should be geared first, and this is based on the class being played or the role the companion is playing.

Naturally, there is attachment to the companion. And in that light, there is a school of thought, and valid, that the companion needs that drop as much as any character.

While needing for the companion might go against the grain for some, for others, it is a necessity. And, in reality, the debate is about conformance to an accepted ideology.

Whether that ideology is correct or incorrect is really up to the player to decide. If we take away the threats of excommunication and that fluff, we're left back at square 1.

BW have rowed in with a dev saying it may get looked at. But, I feel this is a dangerous approach to take.

If BW were to set some standard, one has to ask, are they setting the standard for ToR or more worryingly, for the entire genre?

It is very noteworthy, that this whole mainstream NBG came from WoW. I know it was there in forms on other games, heck we had it in MuDs way way back. But WoW brought it to the masses by virtue of their player base.

It has now become the 'norm', rightly or wrongly. If BW were to now set another standard, who knows where it will end.

Then we have the whole premise of , is the publisher supposed to bring the game to the players and let them play or should the publisher bring the game and all the rules. Again, this effects not just the publisher's game but all those that might follow, again, setting precedents.

Precedents are dangerous things. You set one in one game and are then forced to cater to it in every other game.

Regardless of this, I don't like the game, not for loot stuff, but for many other reasons, including the general community.

/end of waffle

Okay fine no analogies.

Since when is a companion as useful to the group as a real player?