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Operative & Sniper in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Operative & Sniper in PvP

Kirti's Avatar


Kirti
02.23.2012 , 01:22 AM | #21
When I look at the ACs, it's primarily through the lens of how they behave as lethality spec. I'm pretty confident in the damage delivery and cover-independent/run n' gun style play of the lethality sniper.

A lethality operative on the other hand has the restriction of needing TA for culls (but you do get no cooldown & I believe lower energy usage).

A pure lethality build pretty much needs you to run into melee to shiv so you can build that TA. I've been playing around with the idea of leveraging the TA generation ability of the medicine tree to pair with lethality - the 18/0/23 build that already seems to be out there.

In theory, this build should allow you to leverage stealth to move around, use your heals to keep you & your team alive, and allow the heals to generate TA to use on culls. So while you can still use the odd shiv when you need a TA, you are not super dependent on it.

The main challenge with this build is that it pretty much needs you to be 50 to make it work. And I have no idea how effective the 18/0/23 build is...Has anyone tried it at all? Is there really as much synergy as I *think* there is in TA generation with heals and expenditure with culls? It seems like an attrition build..

Once again, thank you for all the input so far - it's good to see what different people are experiencing.

RedOmen's Avatar


RedOmen
02.29.2012 , 01:31 AM | #22
WOW, I cna't believe the thigns I have been readin gon this post. I play a sniper in PvP and it honetsly sucks something awful. Snipers have no real cc, at all. cc meaning you can stun them and shoot them without breakign the cc. We have one knock back which last 2 seconds bu tbefore that even happens you have to set up your cover so it is anything but instant. Leg shot is garbage. Leg shot someone on the run and by the time it hits them they are with'in 30 meters and are in range anyways, so NO range advantage, ever. It takes less than a second to cover 5 meters. Also leg shot is good for 2 seconds... enough for one snipe? Really? You get tossed in a WW so you use escape to break out... then you get shocked for 2 full seconds and take whatever damage for that two seconds they decide to dish out. Another senerio, some guys sees you and heads your way since your an easy target. You leg shot him ASAP when he is in range, he breaks that 'cc' by using a cd of his own and charges you. You pop cover plus to knock him back so then what? He uses sprint which breaks movement imparing affects and he is on you anyways. Your done.
This is a sniper class, where is the range advantage again? Why do we only have one single escape? You can spec into counter strike but that is usless when your force choked, you break it then your feared on the ground or just simply knocked back into fire of off a cliff. Sniper 1v1 is an absolute joke.
I'm valor 56 and I'm really really close to dropping pvp altogether with this toon. Everyone across the boards complain about to much cc.... well I promise snipers have nothign to add to that. Maybe they shoudl take some away from other classes and add just one more to snipers, or another escape or soemthing. I may even like the range increased to 40 since 35 is obsolete.
This one guy told me 'you have to pick your battles'. In other words... dont' start ANY fights with anyone, just help out other people, make their 1v1 a 2v1. If they see you first your done. I've played all specs and even a couple hybrid specs just for pvp. Pvp relies on mobility, period. So I have been using Lethality. I have been doing more damage but my 1v1 is still a joke when faced with someone of equal gear level.
Snipers have no sprints, leaps, pushes, pulls, charges... nothing. They walk. Someone mentioned snipers have so many tools to use? LOL No, they don't.
When I get into a WZ and I see other snipers, I know it will be a loss. Funny thing is though, when I see several sith warriors and inquisitors I know we have a good chance to win. Sniper pvp is just simply no fun and downright stressful.

CauldronBorn's Avatar


CauldronBorn
02.29.2012 , 03:01 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Delease View Post
Being a sniper, at least in PVP, it sucks right now. I play on a server with alot of good players and you hardly see any snipers. You get focused, you are dead, that simple. What kills us is the damage mitigation, the lack of CC that DOESNT break on damage & energy.
Isn't that the truth...
I enter a WZ on my 50 sniper and I'm pretty much insta-focused by 3 players. Most people have realized that a sniper/gunslinger left ignored is a sniper/gunslinger that just killed all the soft targets on your team. Thus, snipers/gunslingers are generally one of the first to die.

Just the way it is. *shrugs*

DSafana's Avatar


DSafana
02.29.2012 , 06:51 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by CauldronBorn View Post
Isn't that the truth...
I enter a WZ on my 50 sniper and I'm pretty much insta-focused by 3 players. Most people have realized that a sniper/gunslinger left ignored is a sniper/gunslinger that just killed all the soft targets on your team. Thus, snipers/gunslingers are generally one of the first to die.

Just the way it is. *shrugs*
Agree with this and the poster before. I just recently reached 50 as a MM sniper. I was having a blast until then, but once you get in the 50 only WZ, they focus on snipers because they are easy prey. There is also the gear inbalance where I have Cent gear at best and they are full BM.
I believe the Op's would at least have the ability to pick their fights. Sniper has no such luxury. I'm not sure if respeccing to lethality would even help since I'd still be the first one focused. Look like a sniper and you may as well paint a target on your back.

CauldronBorn's Avatar


CauldronBorn
02.29.2012 , 03:27 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by DSafana View Post
I'm not sure if respeccing to lethality would even help since I'd still be the first one focused.
Lethality gives you mobility and fairly high AC-independent damage, since a good chunk of the damage is of the internal variety. The downside is that its possibly the single most energy inefficient tree in game. At 31 Lethality, expect to use 80 points of your energy on your combo. Corrosive Dart: 20 energy; Corrosive Grenade: 20 energy;Weakening Blast:10 energy; Cull: 30 energy. To make matters worse, your only form of energy management (besides not spamming skills) is Adrenaline Probe and critical DoT ticks.

Personally, I did not like the tree's ratio of energy consumption vs energy regeneration. Some people like the tree however, So I'd say try it out, see if it works for you.

aesirize's Avatar


aesirize
02.29.2012 , 05:52 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by RedOmen View Post
We have one knock back which last 2 seconds bu tbefore that even happens you have to set up your cover so it is anything but instant. Leg shot is garbage. Leg shot someone on the run and by the time it hits them they are with'in 30 meters and are in range anyways, so NO range advantage, ever. It takes less than a second to cover 5 meters. Also leg shot is good for 2 seconds... enough for one snipe? Really? You get tossed in a WW so you use escape to break out... then you get shocked for 2 full seconds and take whatever damage for that two seconds they decide to dish out. Another senerio, some guys sees you and heads your way since your an easy target. You leg shot him ASAP when he is in range, he breaks that 'cc' by using a cd of his own and charges you. You pop cover plus to knock him back so then what? He uses sprint which breaks movement imparing affects and he is on you anyways. Your done.
This is a sniper class, where is the range advantage again? Why do we only have one single escape? You can spec into counter strike but that is usless when your force choked, you break it then your feared on the ground or just simply knocked back into fire of off a cliff. Sniper 1v1 is an absolute joke.
I'm valor 56 and I'm really really close to dropping pvp altogether with this toon. Everyone across the boards complain about to much cc.... well I promise snipers have nothign to add to that. Maybe they shoudl take some away from other classes and add just one more to snipers, or another escape or soemthing. I may even like the range increased to 40 since 35 is obsolete.
This one guy told me 'you have to pick your battles'. In other words... dont' start ANY fights with anyone, just help out other people, make their 1v1 a 2v1. If they see you first your done. I've played all specs and even a couple hybrid specs just for pvp. Pvp relies on mobility, period. So I have been using Lethality. I have been doing more damage but my 1v1 is still a joke when faced with someone of equal gear level.
Snipers have no sprints, leaps, pushes, pulls, charges... nothing. They walk. Someone mentioned snipers have so many tools to use? LOL No, they don't.
When I get into a WZ and I see other snipers, I know it will be a loss. Funny thing is though, when I see several sith warriors and inquisitors I know we have a good chance to win. Sniper pvp is just simply no fun and downright stressful.

I'm sorry but i respectfully disagree to several points in his/her post.

Quote:
We have one knock back which last 2 seconds but before that even happens you have to set up your cover so it is anything but instant.
*Our Cover Pulse is an amazing ability. As a MM you have to be in cover to do any real damage, Cover Pulse is an instant that knocks everyone back that doesnt have a full Resolve Bar and roots for 5 seconds (Breaks on damage after 2 sec). it's also not on the GCD so if it's a 1v1 fight, Laze, Snipe, Leg Shot to keep them in place and start SoS or Ambush-FT/EP, which if talented has another knock-back.

Quote:
Leg shot is garbage. Leg shot someone on the run and by the time it hits them they are with'in 30 meters and are in range anyways, so NO range advantage, ever.
*Leg Shot is amazing. Immobilizing any target, within 35m for long enough to get a 2.5 cast Ambush, assuming RF did not proc. It has uses both offensively and defensively.
I dont understand your argument about this ability. you state that shooting someone on the run and by the time it hits them they're within 30m anyway. it completely stops them from movement allowing your shots to hit them or if coordinate an attack with a teammate for a kill, or stopping them dead in their tracks in fire/acid traps for an amusing kill.

Quote:
Another senerio, some guys sees you and heads your way since your an easy target. You leg shot him ASAP when he is in range, he breaks that 'cc' by using a cd of his own and charges you. You pop cover plus to knock him back so then what? He uses sprint which breaks movement imparing affects and he is on you anyways. Your done
* In this particular scenario you have a couple difference abilities to help things out, including Diversion which makes 40% of his attacks miss, Debilitate to stun him to get off another Ambush for a knock-back.

Basically i see it this way:
I'm an 'easy' target so he comes at me, Depending on distance I'll start a Laze-Snipe for RF proc if he's mid range from me. If he's already on me, Cover Pulse first, he pops (if he chooses to waste the ability) his CC break, my Ambush is immediately started as soon as cover pulse is used. knock-back another 10m and immediately leg shot. then SoS, he's on me again, Debilitate. Shoot an instant proc Snipe by exiting and entering cover. by the time he finally got to me and started dealing damage. he's 25%-50% dead. Finish him up and move onto next target. If you need extra range. Flashbang him get distance, start up Ambush/Sniper/SoS and start whole process all over again. With Entrench active, no one can much else but either range you, or deal damage. no CC, no knock-back. unless they're full BM gear. if i see them first. they're pretty much dead, and I'm nothing special.

Sniper 1v1 can be a challenge, that's the rewarding part. it's fun and definitely doable. As i said earlier when i go 1V1 unless it's another Sniper specc'd Lethality or BM i often times come up on top.

yes we have several drawbacks, lack of mobility, a disadvantage to heavy armor targets and our class needs tweaking a lot, but if used well we can deal massive damage and hold our own.

I'm sorry, but we have great versatility. it's just not what you like. i can hold my own often times. no we do not have sprint, leap or anything along those lines. we're not front-line characters. we sit in advantageous spots and rain down pain. i'm only lvl 50 Valor but from what I'm reading about your post. it's just a long complain. if you don't like the play style simply play something else.

Lastly, when i enter a WZ if i see another Sniper. we pair up and generally are extremely difficult to kill unless most of the team gets irate and gangs up.

CaptainInsano's Avatar


CaptainInsano
03.01.2012 , 01:51 AM | #27
Do you plan on playing with a group or solo? If you have an organized group, pick Sniper and don't look back. If you like to play solo and gank, pick Operative. If you like participating in PvE of any kind, once again, pick Sniper and thank me later.

Keads's Avatar


Keads
03.01.2012 , 05:07 AM | #28
Ive played just about every operative hybrid I can think of. If you plan on going past the third tier in the Medicine tree, already devoting that many points, see if you can't find something for your playstyle that allows you to have 22 point in the Medicine tree.
Talented [Surgical Probe] changes everything for the operative. Suddenly you can go toe-to-toe with any class by using shiv to proc TA, then Surgical Probe on yourself (while having rolling hots on yourself of course) and beat people into oblivion. Also, if more than one enemy on you, can kite when under 30% with Surgical Probe.
All in all, this talent adds loads of versatility to your play, where otherwise you scramble to get back into stealth, this lets you enjoy the open world a bit more.

I personally enjoy 22/16/3
Though my friend says 24/16/1 works better for him.

Note: This is NOT a damage spec. This is a support role. Follow another operative around and supplement his 60% burst with yours and you will kill people before the get up from the conceal op's knockdown. Or stand healing in center, then turn and beat down individual melee that attack you.

If this is unwanted and you all wanted to call me names and such, please just don't respond. Act like I never said anything.

Keads's Avatar


Keads
03.01.2012 , 05:14 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by aesirize View Post
Lastly, when i enter a WZ if i see another Sniper. we pair up and generally are extremely difficult to kill unless most of the team gets irate and gangs up.
I saw this after I posted.

I am a hard target to kill as a hybrid op. Two entrenched snipers makes me run for the hills. I don't go anywhere near that. Very effective.

Shyox's Avatar


Shyox
03.01.2012 , 02:16 PM | #30
I had no luck at all with lethality sniper. Players on my server dispel and you are left with nothing to cull. I had to switch back to MM which is fine as it is a pretty powerful spec.

You will get targeted in WZs as a sniper because they know that you will do too much damage if left unchecked. You just have to be careful or you will die a lot.