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Sorcerers, seriously what the hell?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Sorcerers, seriously what the hell?

Faat's Avatar


Faat
02.27.2012 , 11:41 AM | #471
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
And wouldn't you know... that is the simple truth with all of this nonsense around "sorc/sage + <insert a 2nd class u hate> dominate the game" claims.

My experience tells me otherwise. Usually a team that is so far lopsided to one or two classes has both extreme strengths and extreme disadvantages, and any balanced team with enough flexibility to adapt in general tactics easily exploits whatever weaknesses such a lopsided team shows.


People don't lose when the enemy is all sorc+mercenaries, or something like that.

People lose when they don't know how to simply counter it.
Easier said than done. Ok, i'm a vanguard, I can chain interrupt / pull / leap / CC one sorc. Fine. But ohh wait. When there's 3-4 Sorcs spamming lightning, and 2 sorcs healing what am I supposed to do ? Tell me how would you counter a team of 6 Sorc hybrids and 2 tanks swapping guard around ?

You have to have the same group composition of sages. No one, in their right mind, would replace any of those sorcs / sages with a DPS Merc or commando, or sniper / gunslinger. Would you ? Arguably, commando / merc does more DPS than sorc / sage. BUT. They're so easy to counter, much easier than sorc / sage. Commando / merc don't have good escape abilities and cooldowns. Snipers / gunslingers are just UP, unless you let them rotate their casts, don't LoS etc.

And healing Sorcs / sages are healing much better than the others.

So, I'll be waiting for you to tell me how to counter 6 Sorcs or sages + 2 tanks with non-sages or sorcs. Your answer must include snipers / gunslingers / sentinels / marauders.

sfdeg's Avatar


sfdeg
02.28.2012 , 05:38 AM | #472
tbh a group of sorcerers is op but 1 sorcerer alone is up against other classes and its not coz im bad at it or anything until lvl 50 i was doing really well in wzs and fps, but the moment i hit 50 everyone kills me b4 i can bring them to 50% hp and yes i have pvp gear

Koynov's Avatar


Koynov
02.28.2012 , 07:35 AM | #473
I am from the people who have sage and sorcer, my sage is 50 lvl and my sorcer is 37. I am all for nerf , first because they are too easy class for playing plus they really have too much things - cc, stuns, too much damage or too much healing. Compare with the melee class they are joke Maybe i would nerf the bubble or make bigger CD, something like 30 -40 sec. The other way is just buff the melee class, fix there animation and buff the damage
I hate when there is classes which are more easily for playing then others because many people start to play them. It's really annoying to see every wz is full with them And in the last weeks i see many commandos/mercenary spammers.Just make sage/sorcer and commando/mercenary harder to play

undiess's Avatar


undiess
02.28.2012 , 07:39 AM | #474
Quote: Originally Posted by sfdeg View Post
tbh a group of sorcerers is op but 1 sorcerer alone is up against other classes and its not coz im bad at it or anything until lvl 50 i was doing really well in wzs and fps, but the moment i hit 50 everyone kills me b4 i can bring them to 50% hp and yes i have pvp gear
Two things:
  1. Read your own post before you hit submit. If it sounds like a train wreck, clean it up.
  2. Did you at least expect that, at 50, you would be demolished by existing level 50's? It's going to happen. Others that have spent longer at end game, in any MMO, are going to destroy those newly come to end game. It's common sense.
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(60) Sage, (60) Shadow, (60) Guardian, (60) Sentinel, (60) Vanguard, (60) Commando, (60) Scoundrel, (60) Gunslinger, (60) Sorcerer, (60) Assassin, (60) Juggernaught, (60) Maurader, (60) Powertech, (60) Mercenary, (60) Operative, (60) Sniper

Hopfm's Avatar


Hopfm
02.28.2012 , 07:50 AM | #475
Seriously, I am just one Battleground away to start apologizing to my team for not playing sorceror.

70% of the teams are made up of sorcerors or mercs, there is something seriously wrong with that.
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Adzzy's Avatar


Adzzy
02.28.2012 , 07:56 AM | #476
Quote: Originally Posted by Faat View Post
Easier said than done. Ok, i'm a vanguard, I can chain interrupt / pull / leap / CC one sorc. Fine. But ohh wait. When there's 3-4 Sorcs spamming lightning, and 2 sorcs healing what am I supposed to do ? Tell me how would you counter a team of 6 Sorc hybrids and 2 tanks swapping guard around ?
2 tanks, 4 dps, 2 healers is a pretty optimal setup, you could replace those sorcs with pretty much any, in fact this would be much easier to kill than say replacing them with mercs, because if you had say 2 snipers, you could kill one of the sorcs so fast that the tank wouldnt have time to protect them, they're actually the easiest class to take down with a really high coordinated burst, and they lack the ability to retaliate with such a burst themselves (hence why they have such strong crowd control....)

It's trying to kill them with sustained damage that is hell, because of their utility abilities.

Pug war zones just lack proper coordination 95% of the time.
Keys are lame

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
02.28.2012 , 09:28 AM | #477
Quote: Originally Posted by Faat View Post
I went in a WZ yesterday full of vangaurds on my team (we had 6, and 2 random non-healing DPS). We LOST.

Vanguards don't heal. Guards don't stack. Vanguards have weak single target damage, they pad damage stats with some potent AOEs.

Vanguard is still a very good class, on par with shadow / guardian, from my PoV. All three tanks are powerful in the right hands. But they'll never be a game changer like Sorc / sage hybrids. 6 Sorcs / sages hybrids + 2 tanks is pure WIN.

QQing about vanguards really... hmmm, from my experience, vanguards need heals to really shine, preferably from a sage.
L2P.

6 vanguards. lol. 6 high impact bolts that eeach crit 4+k, procs flying...., 6 plasma, 6 dots...most of that is elemental damage...

Men, it would be: pull -> kill
pull -> kill
pull ->kill
.....

in short order. Escpecially sorcs, most squishy class.

Faat's Avatar


Faat
02.28.2012 , 09:32 AM | #478
Quote: Originally Posted by Adzzy View Post
2 tanks, 4 dps, 2 healers is a pretty optimal setup, you could replace those sorcs with pretty much any, in fact this would be much easier to kill than say replacing them with mercs, because if you had say 2 snipers, you could kill one of the sorcs so fast that the tank wouldnt have time to protect them, they're actually the easiest class to take down with a really high coordinated burst, and they lack the ability to retaliate with such a burst themselves (hence why they have such strong crowd control....)

It's trying to kill them with sustained damage that is hell, because of their utility abilities.

Pug war zones just lack proper coordination 95% of the time.
That's exactly where lies the imbalance. I imagine the 6 inquisitors / 2 randoms groups I end up playing against have a 4man premade in them, there is simply no other counter than another premade.

But I do think a guarded healing sage / sorc is more beneficial to a premade group than a healing commando / merc or scoundrel / operative, because they have better CC and can heal a group much better.

As for RDPS, a sorc / sage is also better compared to commando / merc and gunslinger / sniper, because, once again, they have more CC and survival tools. Commando / merc is so easy to shutdown and sniper / gunslinger seem to just not have enough DPS (some actually rock, but I get more DPS and deathblows on my SHIELD SPECC vanguard in most matches). And all those 4 ACs have terrible mobility and good tanks / melee DPS will simply take advantage of that. Sage / sorc can usually stun you and force speed away out of LoS and if you follow them you can end up caught deep in ennemy lines. And position is key to success in this game. Mobility WINS. Classes that lacks such perks are at a big disadvantage.

Faat's Avatar


Faat
02.28.2012 , 09:56 AM | #479
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMike View Post
L2P.

6 vanguards. lol. 6 high impact bolts that eeach crit 4+k, procs flying...., 6 plasma, 6 dots...most of that is elemental damage...

Men, it would be: pull -> kill
pull -> kill
pull ->kill
.....

in short order. Escpecially sorcs, most squishy class.
Dosen't really work, especially since a single Sorc / sage can stunlock half those mighty troopers / BHs and kill the others. Multiple classes with a mez vs multiple classes without ? How can you not wipe the floor with them. I know, I lost that fight when we had 6 vanguards and no heals.

Like i said, 6 vanguards / powertechs is NOTHING comparable to 6 sorc / sages WZs. They don't heal, don't bubble, guard can't stack, they don't have enough DPS. They eventually die because they're helpless without heals. And you think powertech / vanguard's damage is all elemental ? What the heck are you smoking ? HiB is white damage (bypass armor and extra crit dmg I know, but only for ASSAULT spec, but what's the point rolling a vanguard to play the SHARED tree spec, while you'd do better assault spec as a commando for the self heals / AoE punt instead of pull / taunts, and in assault spec you're a pure RDPS, and vanguard abilities are mostly melee), most other abilities are tech / kinetic.

Believe whatever you want though, that's mild entertainment. When they give Vanguard self heals and mez, I'll gladly say they're OP though. Right now, i believe that, no, they aren't.

Are we really arguing that 6 non-self healing classes without a mez would be better than 6 self healing classes all with multiple stun / mez vs the others with nothing but the 4s stun ?

L2 theorycraft baddie

VoidJustice's Avatar


VoidJustice
02.28.2012 , 09:59 AM | #480
Quote: Originally Posted by savionen View Post
Sorcerer/Sage is OP, everyone knows it. The only people that say otherwise play a Sorcerer/Sage, which also happens to be 50% of the population now.
the truth squirted out.. quick quick push it back in!