Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Sorcerers, seriously what the hell?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Sorcerers, seriously what the hell?

Dahoff's Avatar


Dahoff
02.20.2012 , 10:23 AM | #151
Don't worry OP, the inevitable nerf bat will find them soon enough. I love reading the defense posts. There's a reason 80% of Imps are playing them and no it's not just because of their "utility".
INFANTRY - Ajunta Pall
Igotyoubro Beans - 50 Bromando Combat Medic
Franksn Beans - 13 Jedi Sage

Mournblood's Avatar


Mournblood
02.20.2012 , 10:25 AM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Philar View Post
Class population saturation occurs in one of these instances:

1. The class is OP.

2. The class is perceived to be OP.

3. The class is fun/cool.


If the class is actually OP, it will be nerfed. Since Sorcerer/Sage QQ has been going on since launch and the only changes so far to the class have been a small buff, the rational person will see that #1 is false..

If there are a lot of people who simply refuse to L2P, and believe the best way to get better at PvP is to get every other class nerfed, the forums will be filled with QQ about how OP a class is. This will cause the FOTM crowd to immediately start rolling the "OP" class because they want to be facerollers. Once the faceroller hits max level and learns the reality, they will either reroll or they will keep playing the class they have become familiar with. Based on the huge volume of nerf requests, paired with the mostly hyperbolic "my warzone was all sorcerers!" threads, it is pretty easy to see that the forum gives the impression that sorcerers are OP, however, as referenced above Bioware has not nerfed the class because they have actual metrics by which they determine OP, UP, and Balanced specs.

If the class has a cool story, is fun to play, or just looks like a BAM-FWIC it will attract a lot of players. The Sorcerer has all three.

In summary, your argument that population proves power level is logically flawed and will be ignored by rational readers.
TL;DR version - I'm right because in the absence of an official Bioware response, there is nothing else to prove me wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Philar View Post
I'm not implying anything. I am stating the fact that the developers have the tools to analyze metrics.

What they do with the results can be debated, but in the end, it is their game and no class is OP or UP if they say it isn't because they are the ones making the rules and giving the grades.
Actually, you were. You were implying that since there hasn't been any Sorc/Sage nerfs since launch, then the QQ about them must be unjustified, hence you concluded incorrectly that #1 was false. But as has already been pointed out, Bioware's competence at MMOing leaves much to be desired. There's at least a dozen fairly significant issues in this game that they still have NOT fixed, many of which are far more important and game impacting than the relative OPness of one AC in PvP. The fact that they haven't gotten around to adjusting Sages/Sorcs yet shouldn't be taken as an indication that they are fine, and we all just need to l2p.

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
02.20.2012 , 10:38 AM | #153
Quote:
I'm right because in the absence of an official Bioware response, there is nothing else to prove me wrong.
That proves nothing. You are not right simply because there aren't any evidence proving you're not wrong. That is pretty much a straw man argument from your part.

While his/her position on this matter is subjective, so is yours. Your opinion is that Sorcerers/Sages are overpowered, based on subjective and anecdotal evidence. His/her opinion is based on the same thing.

That does not make either of them "fact" - which is why we can certainly voice our opinions and give reasons as to why we have them. But in the end, it is the developers that have the data and are in a position to rectify and "overpowered:ness" that might be present.

TL;DR: Your opinion isn't fact because you feel you're right. The developers have the data available to them. They will do something about it if it indeed needs to be done.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

CuriousK's Avatar


CuriousK
02.20.2012 , 11:45 AM | #154
IMO the most relevant argument is going to be the overpopulation one.

Why are their so many gd sorcs/sages?

Their story is so/so.

Lightning is cool, pebble spam, ok sort of cool. But not hugely more so than crazy lightsabers or giant autocannons.

They are self sufficient, easy to learn/play, and do very well as dps or healing.

Its not good for the game to have such an over-representation of a single class, and IMO that over-representation is due to their effectiveness/ease of play.

Ill leave it to each reader to decide for themselves why we see games with 6 sorcs/sages out of 8 players.... on both sides.

xJACKTHERIPPERx's Avatar


xJACKTHERIPPERx
02.20.2012 , 11:50 AM | #155
Here's my 2 cents about inquisitors that people dont seems to realize. Inquisitors, like bounty hunters are the only classes on the Imp side that, depending on their AC, can tank, heal and DPS. So of course it stands to reason that there's going to be more of them since they can fill every roll. My jugg for example, can only tank and dps, my sniper can only dps, so there are going to be fewer of us than inquisitors since we can only do 1 or 2 things.
<Star Forge> Mun'da - 70 Sniper | See'vur - 70 Juggernaut | Kaasra - 70 Assassin | Vasi'us - 70 Mercenary | Inn'oss - 58 Sage | Sediya - 65 Vanguard | Yellow'Polka - 55 Sentinel | Vii'da - 55 Scoundrel

Arctic-wolf's Avatar


Arctic-wolf
02.20.2012 , 11:50 AM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Aylisis View Post
Ha, Everyone complains about sorc. If you went against a team of 5 bh's trust me you would be crying here even more.
yea that..Absolutely nothing do with scor. Its hybrid thing and unbalanced profs with to many stuns.

Riggz's Avatar


Riggz
02.20.2012 , 12:01 PM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by BadgerFett View Post
Why so many people in online games prefer to faceroll their face off than achieve something with a little bit of skill? Almost every WZ i enter there are like 6-8 inquisitors in one team. I cant even see map cuz everything is purple, so many stupid lightnings. I never get that, why ppl roll classes that are easy and for newbs, just like ret palas in wotlk, just like frost mages now. Please BW nerf sorcerers. Sick damage, like 3 imbollizes, stun, bubble, bubble-blind, healz, sprint, constant channeled slow, knockbacks. I mean it, what the...? I just was in WZ where total number of players were 16, and there were 13 inquisitors... PvP in SWTOR isn't cool anyway, but sorcerers make it even worse. Please do something about it because this is riddicolous. See ya peeps and may the force be with You.
Amen! I hate sages - they are easy mode
Urdenot Level 65 Sorc
Urdonught Level 65 Scoundrel
<GRIM DETERMINATION>
<INFAMOUS>

savionen's Avatar


savionen
02.20.2012 , 12:03 PM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by xJACKTHERIPPERx View Post
Here's my 2 cents about inquisitors that people dont seems to realize. Inquisitors, like bounty hunters are the only classes on the Imp side that, depending on their AC, can tank, heal and DPS. So of course it stands to reason that there's going to be more of them since they can fill every roll. My jugg for example, can only tank and dps, my sniper can only dps, so there are going to be fewer of us than inquisitors since we can only do 1 or 2 things.
Hunters were the highest population class in WoW even though they couldn't tank, or heal, the player knew what they were getting in to when they picked it.

High population means one or multiple of the following:
-Easy to play.
-Easy to level.
-Easy to be good in PvP.
-High demand in PvE.

There used to be at least 3 Operatives in every game of PvP I played, until after they got nerfed, and now it's 1 every 3 games.

DesshMorlev's Avatar


DesshMorlev
02.20.2012 , 12:05 PM | #159
I am game for Sorc/Sage to get a hefty nerf wouldn't hurt my feelings cause i have never and will never play one. I am actually really hoping they get a nerf soon so i can see so many whiners explode of this forum.
€≡≡[▤]≡≡≡⊧ ▬ ▬ ▬ Vinsen Morlev - Combat Medic, because I'm not a bad!
....∕▱∕
..∕▱

CuriousK's Avatar


CuriousK
02.20.2012 , 12:06 PM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by xJACKTHERIPPERx View Post
Here's my 2 cents about inquisitors that people dont seems to realize. Inquisitors, like bounty hunters are the only classes on the Imp side that, depending on their AC, can tank, heal and DPS. So of course it stands to reason that there's going to be more of them since they can fill every roll. My jugg for example, can only tank and dps, my sniper can only dps, so there are going to be fewer of us than inquisitors since we can only do 1 or 2 things.
Makes some sense, and to a certain extent yes I agree.

My perception though has been that for many games, there seems to be a disproportionate number of sorcs/sages, even though the merc/powertech (and rebel mirror classes) can fill all three of those roles also (tank/heal/dps) Its rarer i would see 6 troopers in a game than seeing 6 consuls (which happens a fair number of times)

I also say there is a bias for ranged over melee. Melee classes are just harder to play IMO. You have to get in there and expose yourself to enemy attention. you cant use LOS effectively to reduce damage to you (since your in the midst of them) and your dps is 100% dependant on staying in melee range.