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Discussion on 16m vs 8m nightmare raids


gramz's Avatar


gramz
02.18.2012 , 02:32 PM | #1
Quote:
Gabe Amatangelo: This is not per design. The teams have been addressing this in the weekly patches to some degree and more so in Game Update 1.2. It is intended that 16 player mode is slightly easier than 8 player mode due to the fact that getting and coordinating 16 players is a larger hurdle in and of itself.
Given that bioware has stated they intend for 8man operations to be the harder difficulty, what does this mean for the raiding community? Will bioware split 8man and 16m lockouts so that guilds can raid 16m for the challenge of raiding with 16s, but also be able to send an 8man group to experience the "more challenging" as bioware designs it?

Will the "top guilds" be 8man or 16 guilds? Because as I can see it, all of this content is pretty easy, and if they are making 16m content easier... thats not good.

Marroc's Avatar


Marroc
02.18.2012 , 02:34 PM | #2
or Bioware could instead cater to the other 99.99% of their player base.
Marroc Lightbringer
Guildmaster of <Team Squishy>
Lord Praven

gramz's Avatar


gramz
02.18.2012 , 02:35 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Marroc View Post
or Bioware could instead cater to the other 99.99% of their player base.
That is what normal mode is for. Theres a reason to have 3 difficulty levels, 99% of the players dont need to clear nightmare mode content.

Valthirus's Avatar


Valthirus
02.18.2012 , 02:44 PM | #4
It really depends on the amount of difficulty differentiation. I really hope the new Op in March is a new tier and therefore tougher. All nightmare content should be difficult... There is no catering to the 1% - there's no point in having different difficulties if you are catering only to the casual players.
Valthirus - Marauder - Previous Games: RIFT/LOTRO
US West - Mandalore the Indomitable - Empire
16 Man (Nightmare) - 10/10

<Retribution>

Marroc's Avatar


Marroc
02.18.2012 , 02:45 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by gramz View Post
That is what normal mode is for. Theres a reason to have 3 difficulty levels, 99% of the players dont need to clear nightmare mode content.
So you're saying it is wise for a company to spend resources on content which less than 1% of player will experience? Don't get me wrong. I'm with you - all I'm saying is I understand why things are the way they are.
Marroc Lightbringer
Guildmaster of <Team Squishy>
Lord Praven

gramz's Avatar


gramz
02.18.2012 , 02:53 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Marroc View Post
So you're saying it is wise for a company to spend resources on content which less than 1% of player will experience? Don't get me wrong. I'm with you - all I'm saying is I understand why things are the way they are.
I understand the whole "less than 1% of players will see this" argument, but the entire point of having multiple difficulty levels on the same content, is so that those same "less than 1% of players" can have difficult and challenging content, while the "99%" can see the same content, and be able to pug it with relative ease.

I wanted this thread to more discuss how the "top guilds" will rank themselves, since its been stated that the 8man content will be more difficult.

Marroc's Avatar


Marroc
02.18.2012 , 02:57 PM | #7
as for 8m vs. 16m difficulty it will NEVER be balanced properly. Some fights will be easier on 8man others on 16man simply based on the mechanics of the fight. I would think 16man will always be where it's at as 8man isn't really raiding - more like grouping with a couple of extras. I can't wait till they even out difficulties a bit since I'm having a hard time recruiting for 16man. Everybody just wants to do 8 cause of easy purps.
Marroc Lightbringer
Guildmaster of <Team Squishy>
Lord Praven

fusrodahz's Avatar


fusrodahz
02.18.2012 , 05:52 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by gramz View Post
I wanted this thread to more discuss how the "top guilds" will rank themselves, since its been stated that the 8man content will be more difficult.
Back on topic then -

16 Man and 8 Man could simply be done in 2 different brackets, similar to how WoWprogress handles the WoW rankings. If you're not familiar World rankings would be split into, for example :


8 Man world rankings

Guild A #1
Guild B #2
Guild C #3

16 Man rankings

Guild D #1
Guild E #2
Guild F #3

And Finally

Overall World Rankings
Guild A #1
Guild D #2
Guild B #3

Etc

It's going to be unbalanced, we all know that. What we don't know is if Bioware will end up delivering on this 8 man difficulty they're promising. So - Unless it's blatantly apparent that one ends up being far more difficult than the other, For that first week or two we could begin to at least summarize it like this, and go from there. When it's decided upon as to what the "real" progression raid size is, I'd like to hear what we do with the overall rankings at that point.

Of course, this is assuming this content is actually difficult, cared about, and that there are still people left when said content releases.
Klebs - Level 50 Marauder
<Paradox> Sword Of Ajunta Pall

Menisong's Avatar


Menisong
02.18.2012 , 05:54 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Marroc View Post
So you're saying it is wise for a company to spend resources on content which less than 1% of player will experience? Don't get me wrong. I'm with you - all I'm saying is I understand why things are the way they are.
Isn't this exactly how wow made its fortune?

SageH's Avatar


SageH
02.18.2012 , 08:45 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by gramz View Post
Given that bioware has stated they intend for 8man operations to be the harder difficulty, what does this mean for the raiding community? Will bioware split 8man and 16m lockouts so that guilds can raid 16m for the challenge of raiding with 16s, but also be able to send an 8man group to experience the "more challenging" as bioware designs it?

Will the "top guilds" be 8man or 16 guilds? Because as I can see it, all of this content is pretty easy, and if they are making 16m content easier... thats not good.
If this holds true in the next tier, it's likely that guilds who raid for the challenge will fracture into small groups and 16 mans will become the defacto pugs. We'll see though, they don't seem capable of designing well tuned fights yet so time will tell.
Kreven <Retribution> - Mandalore the Indomitable (IA Sniper)
Retribution --- SWTOR Raid Progression
5/5 16m Nightmare EV / 5/5 16m Nightmare KP
5/5 16m HM Explosive Conflict