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"True Neutral"?


SushaBrancaleone's Avatar


SushaBrancaleone
12.15.2011 , 10:32 PM | #11
hey soz peps but i cant post my own thread as I cant add a title.

maybe one of you can create a thread for me ><

my query: kenobi and palpatine. love hate?

so im a decemberist and ive been watching some clone wars and it suddenly hit me. palpatine doesn't seem to particulalry resent kenobi I have no memory of him speaking directly of him or about him in a negative or hatefull way. maybe just a phrase here and there but not more than any other jedi. Yet u would think otherwise, i mean he killed his first apprentice darth maul, he trained anakin, in the clone wars he always tries to ruin his plan, lets say more succesfully than other jedi. I mean the duo kenobi skywalker is as succesful as lennon-mc cartney. well he also majorly gimped his new apprentice, so thats a +50 reputation with sidous faction for kenobi. yet he survives order 66 and hides his future murder to him for 20 so years. By the time luke comes into play id figure palpatine would have fits of rage and nervous tics everytime he'd hear his name no? Evenmore so at the very end when his defeat is signed by anakins return to the light side, kenobi is a big part of anakins good side or whatever it is. i gues what i mean is if one day i were to meet palpatine id be particularly careful no to mention kenobi.

is it just me or we need some lore reference on this? i mean, in the last week i've come to know about the existence of the extended unierse cannon, non cannon and so on, the lore is huge and often the character development is way better than most stories, games, movies, series out there, yet me miss something as obvious as this. yes i know tor is some 1000 years before, im oftopic.. but ... but...

SushaBrancaleone's Avatar


SushaBrancaleone
12.15.2011 , 10:50 PM | #12
i suppose i owe u an ontopic answer to the OP

the definition of gray jedi is ambigious according to what cannon u go with, regardless
i think i read somwhere that the dude mentioned above (the kotor companion) is the first time it was mentioned as a concept.

if u check wookiepedia look for the lost 20 most of those are considered gray jedis.

ah and i also remember some1 said it was first mentioned in movies in I, in the form of "some think qui gon is a gray jedi"

there have been more in the comics appearing since. wookepedia in case u're overly curious.

morganlion's Avatar


morganlion
12.15.2011 , 11:02 PM | #13
Ok grey jedi or sith sure its possible walking the middle road but if you think about it aint that most creatures/alien/ peoples road anyways if you actually think about it? how many of us actually have enlightenment or activly seeking it in real life? Closest thing i can think of compariing to a jedi. Now take sith how many of us are activly seeking to act demonic/destructive hurting and killing to get what we want?

So again a average person kinda does some bad things, hurts some ppl here and there but trys to help others close to them but nothing huge like help/hinder the world. But if we are talking about balancing the force then you would be able to use sith powers and jedi powers. The game doesnt allow that i remember in kotor you could balance and have said powers of both.

It be neat tho i must admit but should be a really really long quest chain to unlock. Possible ideas is you must me "grey". Must get all the hologrons (this would only be aceptable if they moved those things around and 1st come 1st serve with long cds on respawns) definatly some more stuff i havent thought of and then finally reset your toon back at level 1 and do the other sides quests so if you started sith go do jedi side over and remain in balance. I know it seems long and hard but the ability to use both light and dark skills shouldnt be done by everyone and should be really hard to do. Pluss i would add that you only got exp from quests not anything else no pvp no flash points less quest related. Farming exp dont work is what iam trying to say.
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes".

SushaBrancaleone's Avatar


SushaBrancaleone
12.15.2011 , 11:16 PM | #14
Now take sith how many of us are activly seeking to act demonic/destructive hurting and killing to get what we want?

mhh wait i remember something like.. "there is only passion" from the sith code of kotor, so technically some1 seeking just sexual and sentimental pleasure is pretty much down that sith way of life..

im sure we could find more examples to give some shades to your black and white point of view

qamarnahaar's Avatar


qamarnahaar
12.15.2011 , 11:45 PM | #15
Why to be truly neutral, to bring balance to the Force, one would have to be some sort of Chosen One or something...

The issue of what it might mean to be a "neutral" force user was somewhat implied in the 3rd season Clone Wars episodes of the Mortis trilogy. Check em out...

Mechos's Avatar


Mechos
12.16.2011 , 01:23 AM | #16
The problem is, 'neutral' in-game isn't neutral. It's insane, psychotic. Schizophrenic.

One moment you're petting kittens, then you're eating them for breakfast without remorse, then five minutes later breaking down in tears. You're trying to arbitrarily balance 'points' in some eternal equation, which ends up meaning you have no principles, no ethics or morals, and you wind up utterly and completely inconsistent.

The only way to do 'grey' properly is to make it a three-tiered system, with Light, Grey, and Dark points. But they haven't gone that route, so I'm not so sure they'll ever put in neutral gear.

Farliner's Avatar


Farliner
12.16.2011 , 01:43 AM | #17
Well, the way "Grey Jedi" are explained in the lore, is not that they where "neytral" neither dark, nor light, but that they, like Qui Gon would not strictly adhere to Councills decisions - they remain fully lightsiders, but sometimes choose their own path, instead of following directives. So, if you want to be a Grey Jedi, touch luck - you still gotta be light. If you are no longer a lightsider, you become a Fallen Jedi....

Artemys's Avatar


Artemys
12.16.2011 , 03:24 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaaldean View Post
Exactly!

Imagine a grey sentinel or maurader with a red and a blue saber in his hands... only possible to the grey jedi who has neither achieved Dark I or Light I.

Also, Revan is a perfect example of a Grey Jedi. Its rare... but its fun to play something other than LAWFUL GOOD, CHAOTIC GOOD, or LAWFUL EVIL, CHAOTIC EVIL... adding neutrality to the game will allow us old pen/paper D&D veterans to play a LAWFUL NEUTRAL, TRUE NEUTRAL, and a CHAOTIC NEUTRAL player and not be penalised by that choice.

Looking forward to neutrality when it comes.
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Jpope's Avatar


Jpope
12.16.2011 , 03:35 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by LinJe View Post
I was thinking, what about that old guy in the Wookie-world Forest in KOTOR?

He was sorta neutral I guess?
Jolee Bindo is a confirmed Grey Jedi. Another notable Grey Jedi is Qui-Gon Jinn
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whoaaaaaa, bold statements - a pity jpope hits like a girl.

daweee's Avatar


daweee
12.16.2011 , 03:42 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Mechos View Post
The problem is, 'neutral' in-game isn't neutral. It's insane, psychotic. Schizophrenic.

One moment you're petting kittens, then you're eating them for breakfast without remorse, then five minutes later breaking down in tears. You're trying to arbitrarily balance 'points' in some eternal equation, which ends up meaning you have no principles, no ethics or morals, and you wind up utterly and completely inconsistent.

The only way to do 'grey' properly is to make it a three-tiered system, with Light, Grey, and Dark points. But they haven't gone that route, so I'm not so sure they'll ever put in neutral gear.
Eh no?
Insane is to kill everything in your way, or hug everything...
Neutral is what most people really are, making sometimes dark and sometimes light choices.

I have not tried to balance points at all, just making choices based on the situation, and guess what, currently I am at almost perfect balance, 1400 Light and 1450 Dark.