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16m intended to be easier? what?

sang's Avatar


sang
02.17.2012 , 04:31 PM | #1
From this weeks Q&A: http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-17th-2012

Quote:
Lexiekaboom: 16 man Operations are much harder than 8 man Operations (to the point where most guilds can easily clear hard mode 8 man before being able to clear 16 man easy mode) but there is no loot difference at all to doing them. It's better to send your 16 man raid force to clear two 8 man instances .Is this oversight or design? What will be done to offset this in the future?

Gabe Amatangelo: This is not per design. The teams have been addressing this in the weekly patches to some degree and more so in Game Update 1.2. It is intended that 16 player mode is slightly easier than 8 player mode due to the fact that getting and coordinating 16 players is a larger hurdle in and of itself.
Someone please tell me this is a mistake or something. In no universe should 8man be harder than 16man. Furthermore, 16man should drop more/better loot. If the intended design is that 16man is indeed easier than 8man I honestly don't see how endgame PvE will survive in SWTOR.
Sang - Sangz - Sanglol - Sanglul - Sangrawr - Sangocity

Jacobusb's Avatar


Jacobusb
02.17.2012 , 04:36 PM | #2
No, what the Dev means is that 16 man is not intended to be Significantly harder than 8man content like it is. What they are trying to do is make it equivalent to the 8man difficultly.

8man VS 16man is just to accommodate to the larger guilds, its not intended to be a raid stepping stone.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.

sang's Avatar


sang
02.17.2012 , 04:52 PM | #3
How is putting 16m at the same difficulty as 8man good either? 16man content (specifically nightmare) is the only real decent challenge in the game. If you scale it so that 16m normal = 8man normal, 16m hard = 8m hard, etc, you are drastically reducing the skill ceiling. =/
Sang - Sangz - Sanglol - Sanglul - Sangrawr - Sangocity

arnoldlol's Avatar


arnoldlol
02.17.2012 , 04:55 PM | #4
Inb4 **** storm.
Cali Killed Nox
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Aestel's Avatar


Aestel
02.17.2012 , 05:20 PM | #5
Well they could make 16man easier than 8man by making 8man harder. All Gabe is saying is that the choice of 16 or 8 should be a preference choice and not because one presents more or less of a challange. The difficult settings of normal/hard/nightmare is the intended mechanic for altering the difficulty of the encounter and thats what they should look at balancing when trying to provide greater challanges.

Thoffs's Avatar


Thoffs
02.17.2012 , 05:49 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Aestel View Post
Well they could make 16man easier than 8man by making 8man harder. All Gabe is saying is that the choice of 16 or 8 should be a preference choice and not because one presents more or less of a challange. The difficult settings of normal/hard/nightmare is the intended mechanic for altering the difficulty of the encounter and thats what they should look at balancing when trying to provide greater challanges.
Agree with this interpretation.

I am wondering if they will change this approach later with new operations to give people more of carrot for doing 16M operations. Will have to wait and see I guess.

Maoxx's Avatar


Maoxx
02.17.2012 , 05:58 PM | #7
Yea Cataclysm tried to do this too, with equivlent difficulty, and same item level loot between the 2 . It didn't work well at all. It really is I think too much to make the 2 raid difficulties equal without severely gutting/overbuffing one or the other to match up. Not to mention loot. While it may make it easier on devs to have less gear to develop and itemize, it just doesn't work well. Most players will, for the most part, go the path of least resistance here.

IMO make certain raids for each size and be done with it. That way you can tune the content more appropriately. With 8 man gear being slightly lower Item level than the 16 man. That way you can at least encourage your player base to do both levels of raiding vs what it is now. I know somebody will say something about wanting to see content and not dealing with 16 people, well my answer is I would rather do both types with different content for each and thus more to do and see.

Crunchyblack's Avatar


Crunchyblack
02.17.2012 , 06:16 PM | #8
I think i can make their comment make sense.

If the 8 man is the base "difficulty" meaning how hard it is to complete given 8 people are there...having a 16 man dungeon have mobs twice as hard as the 8 man dungeon would be about equal in difficulty. This is to compensate for the fact that you have double the players and therefore a mob that was difficult in the 8 man would be just as difficult in the 16 man with twice the health.

THeir statement that its meant to be easier might mean that the mobs bosses and what not are less than double the health, and therefore slightly easier, to compensate for difficulties in managing a measly 16 man group.

My personal feelings is that they need to make some truely difficult endgame content. This will not cut it. My experience with rift (using as a "new game with raid content" reference) was that their origional raid content, and their hard modes, were often too difficult for the general population, who spent their endgame days camped in instant pvp matches. As a pve'er able to follow direction and make common sense decisions regarding the song and dance required to drop a boss..i found it quite hard to do the content, there were like 3 raiding guilds spread across 2 factions and even then they had to pug to get a full raid, it was a heavy server too.

Regardless, i think there should be easy content, but i really hope they at least add raid content that is seriously difficult and cant be beat by bringing a bunch of geared mouthbreathers, simpley becasue their accuracy is enough and they know the 5 button rotation.

/rant

XaviourEQ's Avatar


XaviourEQ
02.17.2012 , 06:16 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Jacobusb View Post
No, what the Dev means is that 16 man is not intended to be Significantly harder than 8man content like it is. What they are trying to do is make it equivalent to the 8man difficultly.

8man VS 16man is just to accommodate to the larger guilds, its not intended to be a raid stepping stone.
No.He clearly states that the 16 mans are supposed to be slightly easier than the 8 mans because coordinating 16 people is harder... hence, dumb down the 16man content below the 8mans so there's room for sloppy coordination.. = FAIL.

gangbot's Avatar


gangbot
02.17.2012 , 11:38 PM | #10
16man is easier.
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