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Why would I want to use my BM gear?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why would I want to use my BM gear?

Reilnkur's Avatar


Reilnkur
02.17.2012 , 04:02 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
Expertise is used in your base attack formulas. Expertise damage reduction is applied across all of your endurance and applied to healed health. Heals ignore trauma based on your expertise.

In short, BM gear is better for PVP than Rakata gear if you are playing PVP.

Now, if you prefer to roll around in Rakata, that's cool. You'll be less effective however than someone else who doesn't.
But that doesnt hold true in Dmg and Kills. In my Rakata as a Sniper I am almost always top dmg and kills in Rakata and in my BM gear same mods I get almost 100k less dmg and fewer kills. This is why I want to know why BM vs the Rakata. I dont see any benifits other than Heals to live longer, but if I am getting top kills and top dmg than extra heals could help but like I said in my BM I cant achive that goal seems almost like its less over all.

I still think it has more to do with Rakata having more over all stats and higher crit / surge maybe instead of the expertise.

Reilnkur's Avatar


Reilnkur
02.17.2012 , 04:05 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Wrakk View Post
Rakata gear is pretty much as battlemaster if compared in PvP. It shouldn't be so in PvP.

My PvP gear ain't as near as cool in PvE situations, such as raiding.

I saw many people in full champion gear getting owned by RAKATA geared people with 0 expertise. So that's 600+ expertise against 0.

Expertise is a piece of junk therefore.
Thats what I am saying it sure seems that way and I wanted to see how people would argue the other side to see if maybe I am missing something or not modding right... basically I wanted someone to sell me into my BM gear as to why I want to wear it.

Now mind you looking at this thread and a few others it would seem that some classes get the same stats or so they say, but as a IA sniper My Rakata gives me a few more k in health and over 150more dps. , more crits and more surge... vs BM gear with a small 500 health on a heal and maybe some extra dmg is they guy is wearing less BM gear.

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
02.17.2012 , 04:07 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Wrakk View Post
Rakata gear is pretty much as battlemaster if compared in PvP. It shouldn't be so in PvP.

My PvP gear ain't as near as cool in PvE situations, such as raiding.

I saw many people in full champion gear getting owned by RAKATA geared people with 0 expertise. So that's 600+ expertise against 0.

Expertise is a piece of junk therefore.
There isn't any Op in the game right now you can't run the Hard Mode for in Champion gear, let alone BM gear. The only thing that requires some Rakata is nightmare modes and even that is debatable.

IMHO, working as intended. This basically means you need to run the Hard Mode for EV a few times before running the nightmare mode. Seems logical to me.

Fan_Atic's Avatar


Fan_Atic
02.17.2012 , 04:11 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Reilnkur View Post
hmm not sure how your BM gear is better than Rakata. Rakata has more End, more primary stat, than add what ever mods you use in and you still end up with better dmg stats than what Expertise attemps to do. Heals are the only benifit. If I wear full BM and you wear full BM the Expertise does nothing my extra %dmg will be removed by your %reduction so tell me how that is better than the extra +crit in expertises place on the Rakata?

Only way it is better is if you are fighting people that are less geared than you. Seems like a failed stat. As to heals gained form the % that is a good bonus, however playing a sniper I dont usually worry about heals myself as Im already pretty soft I learned to just play smart as a ranged.

Even with the 58 mods/enhancement you sitll wont get the same endurance or primary stat on BM as you would Rakata.
In full bm I have roughly 13% expertise or +13% damage given -13% damage taken and +13% healing. In full Rakata I get ~+200 primary(13% more) and +200 (13% more) endurance. Secondary stats are identical for both Rakata and BM for my class. My rakata set bonuses flat suck in comparison to my BM ones.

Improved healing from BM and set bonuses alone make it better for me. I've also found that +13% more primary stat isn't a 13% damage buff. Your class may be different.
This should be required reading for anyone wanting to post on the forums

http://mrlizard.com/rants/why-havent...fixed-this-bug

Batslav's Avatar


Batslav
02.17.2012 , 04:13 PM | #15
i have columi wrist tank piece drop from BT i believe its not top PVE gear but it have 14 endurance more compared to the BM survivor piece which is kinda weird...

no idea how hard is to get the PVE gear but if its not much harder than the PVP one there should not be such big difference in stats imo

Reilnkur's Avatar


Reilnkur
02.17.2012 , 04:14 PM | #16
I took this example from another thread.
I sear though my Rakata has extra stats I will have to check this once I get back on line.

Let's use an example: These are exact DPS stat + Endurance for Combat Tech(powertech dps)

Helmet:
RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Hands:
RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Body:
RAKATA = 112 AIM 116 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Legs:
RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Feet:
RAKATA = 112 AIM 116 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

(122*3+112*2-94*5)/(94*5) = 25.53% increase in DPS stats that Rakata has over Battlemaster

(thank you wolfram alpha )

In every case, Rakata has more endurance and more aim. this is the SAME throughout ALL the dps class sets(the tanking sets have way more endurance). This is WHY rakata is so much better, as expertise just doesn't stack up as well as the extra dps and endurance stats.

Gaidax's Avatar


Gaidax
02.17.2012 , 04:22 PM | #17
The point is simple... BM gear pulls off the moment you get any sort of healing.

3k worth of healing on Rakata dude is effectively ~3.3k for BM one, because of extra damage reduction from expertise, which makes health gains more effective.

So basically Full BM and Rakata you will roughly do same damage, have the same effective HP, but all healing and shielding done on you as BM is 12% more effective, by the grace of a fact that you lose health slower thanks to damage reduction.


Also the above is quite flawed, you are not taking into account the fact that in the end your final Primary stat in the Character Sheet won't be increased by 25% and other than that +25% to Primary Stat is far from +25% DPS. Effectively it is lower than whatever full Expertise gearing at those levels gives.
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Fan_Atic's Avatar


Fan_Atic
02.17.2012 , 04:26 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Reilnkur View Post
I took this example from another thread.
I sear though my Rakata has extra stats I will have to check this once I get back on line.

Let's use an example: These are exact DPS stat + Endurance for Combat Tech(powertech dps)

Helmet:
RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Hands:
RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Body:
RAKATA = 112 AIM 116 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Legs:
RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Feet:
RAKATA = 112 AIM 116 Endurance
BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

(122*3+112*2-94*5)/(94*5) = 25.53% increase in DPS stats that Rakata has over Battlemaster

(thank you wolfram alpha )

In every case, Rakata has more endurance and more aim. this is the SAME throughout ALL the dps class sets(the tanking sets have way more endurance). This is WHY rakata is so much better, as expertise just doesn't stack up as well as the extra dps and endurance stats.
While I respect you numbers and opinion, until we get a combat log and dps meter it's difficult to determine exactly how much extra damage that aim would provide during a dps scenario. It's easy enough to know how much extra benefit we get from expertise comparatively.

I really wish this game would have dynamic skill tooltips. Seeing the base damage listed for every skill no matter what your gear is extremely annoying.
This should be required reading for anyone wanting to post on the forums

http://mrlizard.com/rants/why-havent...fixed-this-bug

Reilnkur's Avatar


Reilnkur
02.17.2012 , 04:28 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
The point is simple... BM gear pulls off the moment you get any sort of healing.

3k worth of healing on Rakata dude is effectively ~3.3k for BM one, because of extra damage reduction from expertise, which makes health gains more effective.

So basically Full BM and Rakata you will roughly do same damage, have the same effective HP, but all healing and shielding done on you as BM is 12% more effective, by the grace of a fact that you lose health slower thanks to damage reduction.
Ah that is true, however now in order for your armor to be 12% more effective you have to get the heals which is where the flaw is and why I believe that Rakata is better. In most WZ people travel in as a pact for the first few minutes but soon as they all split most plays will not have a healer near by which makes that 12% a chance and a low one at that if you are not with a bunch of friends or good healers that work well. But add in CC's and Rakata geared can control the 12% wihch is why BM gear is failing

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
02.17.2012 , 04:32 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Reilnkur View Post
But that doesnt hold true in Dmg and Kills. In my Rakata as a Sniper I am almost always top dmg and kills in Rakata and in my BM gear same mods I get almost 100k less dmg and fewer kills.
I'm guessing you solo queue and play warzones like they're just a series of 1vs1 fights but even a side heal now and then from a healer makes BM gear better than Rakata because dead people don't do any damage and can't kill anyone.