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Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

ferroz's Avatar


ferroz
02.17.2012 , 03:21 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by knightkrawlur View Post
Sadly most MMO developers add some sort of system like this. They know they can't provide PvE content as fast as players can chew threw it, so even on PvE servers they leave the option to PvP when you run out of content.

So you end up two types of PvP players on a PvE servers.

1) PvE players that have run out of content or just become bored with the content. So they try their hand at PvP for something to do. These players are usually decent people and respectful of others. They are the type of players that won't attack someone 10+ levels lower than them and will not engage someone who is half dead and in the middle of fighting a MOB.

2) Griefers that can't hack it on a PvP server. The griefers love the flagging system and they are the first ones to defend the current way things work. They are borderline sociopaths that thrive on un-fair fights. They don't want a fair fight, they want a hand full of PvE mobs helping, they want to surprise you when you least expect it.
False dilemma fallacy

3) Players who like both PvE and PvP, but prefer consensual only PvP; these people don't limit themselves to only pvping when they're bored of pve. They may even prefer pvp to pve. So, in wow, people who primarily play for battlegrounds or arenas but play on pve servers would fall into this category.

4) Players that may like both PvE and PvP and are in fact, in favor of FFA always flagged pvp like you get on pvp servers, and are are only playing on a pve server in order to play with friends, but who don't necessarily grief. Some of them will keep the "red is dead" philosophy; some will totally avoid taking advantage of people who are low level of combat; some will be somewhat sporting about it*


*Say, for example, the guy in rift who would walk up to a lowbie and /say "Say uncle" ... if the lowbie did so, he'd leave them alone; if not, he'd kill them.

johnhughthom's Avatar


johnhughthom
02.17.2012 , 03:23 PM | #12
Actually, it only mentions becoming flagged when a player from the opposing faction is caught in one of your aoes. The only times I've been flagged for pvp are from buffing my faction's players when they were flagged for pvp. I suppose that is the players fault as you can see on their portratit they are pvp flagged.

mrcaptainpants's Avatar


mrcaptainpants
02.17.2012 , 03:57 PM | #13
Nicely done, Bioware. Thank you for listening and making this change to prevent griefing. It is much appreciated.

Kourage's Avatar


Kourage
02.17.2012 , 04:39 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by johnhughthom View Post
Actually, it only mentions becoming flagged when a player from the opposing faction is caught in one of your aoes. The only times I've been flagged for pvp are from buffing my faction's players when they were flagged for pvp. I suppose that is the players fault as you can see on their portratit they are pvp flagged.
Yep, your fault entirely.
Looking for a good woman. Able to clean, cook, sew, catch bait, and clean fish. Must have boat and motor.
((Please send picture of boat and motor))

shama's Avatar


shama
02.18.2012 , 02:22 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by syomyke
In most games: If Player B uses an AoE attack that hits both PvE mobs and PvP (Player A) mobs, he will be flagged for combat. Apparently BioWare doesn't like this: But let me be very clear. In WoW this is how it works. You use AoE around flagged enemies? You get flagged. Most people understand this. It's understood that you need to be careful around enemies who "taunt" you into attacking them by hoping you make a mistake with AoE abilities.
With respect, you are wrong. Your understanding of how it happens in WoW is flawed. If you, as a non-flagged player were to directly attack the mob with something that caused an AoE effect then any PvPers in the blast range would take no damage.
If though you were to directly attack the PvP player with something that did AoE you'd be flagged.


Quote: Originally Posted by syomyke
Now under the developer response above; you'll see new exploits arising thanks to your whining.

Now if player A and player B are both fighting each other, if player C casts an AoE heal (let's say Revivification) he WILL NOT get flagged if he manages to cast it on friendly targets who are not flagged. Congraulations!!!! You have now whined about one thing and as a result now you are allowing flagged pvpers to be healed by non-flagged players. What do you do? You can't kill the healer because if he is smart, he can continue to AoE heal without getting flagged if he casts it carefully enough.
Please, learn to read. The dev response made no mention of AoE healing. No-one who has posted in this thread highlighting the problem with non-consensual PvP has EVER stated that they want the situation where a non-PvPer can help a PvPer. What has been asked for is simply the removing of auto-flagging in this situation ... so that you, as the non-PvPer are given a message that your heal/res/damage/buff/debuff failed because you are not flagged for PvP. This message can be given in exactly the same way that the various other 'effect failed' messages are given ... such as the one if you try to perform scoundrel back-blast when you are not behind the target, or the Jedi Knight parry when you haven't made a block.


Quote: Originally Posted by syomyke
Honestly it should boil down to this: If you see someone flagged and you don't want to fight, don't use AoE abilities. Alas my faith in BioWare is decreasing everyday by catering to these people who don't want to be held accountable for their inability to pay attention to their surroundings.
Again, if you'd even read a 1/4 of this thread you'd see that what you are saying is nonsense and already been addressed. Just for you though, because I'm feeling generous and educational, I'll repeat it yet again ...

If you can't see someone flagged, because they are stealth, then what you are asking for is for people to just never use AoE abilities if they don't want to PvP. This isn't an acceptable answer on a PvE server. By far the simplest, and widely adopted in other MMO games, mechanism is to simply not allow PvE players to have an effect on PvP players. The PvE player should be given a notification on why they can't affect the player they tried to, so they can then choose to flag themselves for PvP - or ignore it and leave the PvP player to their game.

And yes, NPC's *should* be flagged for PvP when attacked by a PvP player just so that PvE players can't interfere with that mob (i.e. healing it to cause the PvP problems) BUT at the point that it is flagged for PvP it should lose all aggro on everyone apart from the player that caused it to flag. This would solve the other exploit mentioned in this thread.
Quote: Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision

Shuno's Avatar


Shuno
02.18.2012 , 02:30 AM | #16
How often do you get enemy players loitering around next to you anyway?

I can only think of a single occasion (Tatooine in the Czerka bunker place) where this could have happened.

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Reldun's Avatar


Reldun
02.18.2012 , 02:41 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Shuno View Post
How often do you get enemy players loitering around next to you anyway?

I can only think of a single occasion (Tatooine in the Czerka bunker place) where this could have happened.
It's een happening quite a bit. Count yourself lucky if it hasn't happenend to you all that much.

Nitewolfe's Avatar


Nitewolfe
02.18.2012 , 02:51 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Shuno View Post
How often do you get enemy players loitering around next to you anyway?

I can only think of a single occasion (Tatooine in the Czerka bunker place) where this could have happened.
Happens a lot on the ilum pve side for daily quest. After 5 pr 6 times aday i trained myself to never aoe and to turn pets aoe off! Yes Ilum has a pve side with pve dailies.
Now i am thrilled ill be able to aoe again while i do my pve quest!

Oh and i did find out that you can be flagged with out ever casting a heal or buf.
On my tank i had guard on a player and they flagged after i had guard on them and it flagged me. BW needs to look into making all effects drop fro ma player when they choose to pvp flag. The flagging was not my choice they over rode my choice by flagging themselves.

krinaman's Avatar


krinaman
02.18.2012 , 02:52 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Shuno View Post
How often do you get enemy players loitering around next to you anyway?

I can only think of a single occasion (Tatooine in the Czerka bunker place) where this could have happened.
High levels do it intentionally to gank low levels. Therefore, they go to areas completely outside of their quest areas just to find players to gank.

shama's Avatar


shama
02.18.2012 , 02:53 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Shuno View Post
How often do you get enemy players loitering around next to you anyway?

I can only think of a single occasion (Tatooine in the Czerka bunker place) where this could have happened.
I know the thread is very long, but if you read the first version of this thread you'll see it has happened to quite a few people. At the time this was first reported there was obviously a group of players who enjoyed exploiting it and causing grief to PvE players.
There are a number of 'early' planets, where both both Imps and Reps quest side by side. All you need to do to exploit this as a high level griefer is to go into stealth and hang around mobs being attacked by a lower level PvEer ... sooner or later they will use an AoE and unintentially flag themselves by hitting you with the splash damage. Then you can jump on them, kill them with ease while they are wondering *** happened, and laugh your griefer cackle
Quote: Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision