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Light Side Sith: Anti-Villain?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Light Side Sith: Anti-Villain?

alricka's Avatar


alricka
02.21.2012 , 01:06 PM | #21
I'm currently leveling a neutral-to-dark (or Dark Grey, if you like) Sith Warrior as my main character. I have made plenty of LS choices so far, and I felt that each one of them was justified given the way I imagine and view my character.

When Vette asked me to remove her slave collar, I did so at once. The reason was not so much out of mercy or pity, but because at this point I had recognized that she's useful and I realized she'd be even more useful if she's not miserable. And besides, wanton cruelty means nothing to my character. When he kills or tortures someone, it's not for pleasure, it's always with a purpose. It served no purpose to torment Vette and now I have a useful and willing servant in her instead of a slave who hates my guts.

Later, when I
Spoiler


On Tatooine, when I
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Now I'm on Alderaan and I'm
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There are of course many more instances where I defined what sort of a person my character is. Overall, I'd say that he's definately a villain, even though his alignment isn't that dark. He doesn't have qualms about commiting murder and even if he shows mercy it's always with an agenda in mind.
However, he is not a monster and he wouldn't hurt or kill someone who isn't a threat or a tool. He's not a raging maniac. He's also neither a true patriot, nor a loyal and devout Sith. The rampant jingoism of the Imperials is appaling and most Sith are just slaves to their basic animalistic urges. No, my Sith Warrior is out for himself only.
This is what the Dark Side means to him - one's goal should be to break free of the shackles of morality and obedience in order to be able to truly reach out and grab his dreams. But he's also cunning enough to realize that you can't just take on the whole world and flip it off. Hence he's biding his time, watches his back and is always ready to go up the Empire's heriarchy. Baras is a dead man, but I always fake toadiness when with him - the time will come and he'll get what he deserves.

See the beauty of the neutral alignment? This a nuanced character, whose actions are controversial and don't follow a simple pattern. But he's definately a villain. Just not the typical rampaging brute or a cackling madman.

shama's Avatar


shama
02.21.2012 , 01:18 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by RepublicGurl View Post

NOTE: Anti-hero is defined as; (according to TV-tropes) a villain with heroic goals, personality traits, and virtues. Their desired ends are good, but their means of getting there can be defined as evil.
Good topic, because today I started a dark-side consular. Just to be clear, this isn't about being grey - or having my own morals - I am forcing myself to, if there is a choice, to accept the dark-side option and so play as the story leads me. I have a smuggler that is grey, an inquisitor that is dark and a knight who is light so this is my first run through the 'opposite' side to how you'd expect for a faction.

I wanted to say though that the definition of anti-hero given doesn't describe my dark-side consular ... purely based on the levels 1-10 I should add. The dark side choices so far have been selfish and nothing to do with heroic goals, traits or virtues..

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I am enjoying the break from the cloying goody goody control your emotion play of light side Jedi, but I do find it very amusing how I am just given a stern talking to when, for example, I killed the pilgrims or called my masters friend an ugly monster, and still get to graduate as a Jedi
It is like carte-blanche: I know the quest chain will still carry on whatever I do, so I can be as rude as I like, rise to anger and kill anyone that gets in my way, lie, cheat, work for personal profit and various other things that would ordinarily get me a promotion if I was a Sith.
Quote: Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision

Isilme_Turuphant's Avatar


Isilme_Turuphant
02.21.2012 , 03:02 PM | #23
I think you get some of the most interesting characterizations and concepts by playing 'Against the grain' so to speak.

Light side Sith, Dark side Jedi, etc. It's a little less dramatic with other classes, since by definition they are naturally 'grey' and not as polarized.

However, I play my Sith as someone who sees and recognizes that at the very top the Empire is broken, that the Emperor is insane and the Empire does not adhere to the values it espouses. However, she firmly believe sin those values, and believes that if the Empire could be brought in line with them, it would be a good thing. She believes in the idea of a meritocracy (Being a slave who became a Sith Lord by her own merits, that's an understandable position). She doesn't coddle the weak, but at the same time feels that people should not be held down, and given the chance to show that they can be more than fodder (The troops on Hoth, who she endorsed as being able to surprise the Moff who dismissed them as 'disposable'). She's not seen much from the Jedi that's so admirable... her experience has shown her Jedi who have abandoned and dismissed those that loved them and sacrificed everything for them to pursue the power the Order could give them, Jedi who manipulated whole races to fight their wars for them, creating the schism between the peoples of Voss and condemning them to eternal conflict. The Sith are no better, true, but they are at least honest about what they do and what they are.

I'm planning a Jedi alt next, darkside, and see how that goes.

Aethyriel's Avatar


Aethyriel
02.21.2012 , 03:13 PM | #24
as a LS Sih it's a huge balancing act if nothing else. You try the change the empire from within while still having to represent the empires interests in order to save the empire from being overwhelmed, thus getting you/many other killed eventually and also eventually let the Sith rise again, same as they were before with no peace in sight unless one side completely kills off the other one. So you basically end up, more often than not, doing the wrong (bad) things, but for the right reasons. Compared to a Jedi... you act more on compassion than justice without emotional connection, in the end many things they do (or rather, they DON'T do) may be considered evil from a LS Sith perspective.

Gabrielnz's Avatar


Gabrielnz
02.21.2012 , 04:02 PM | #25
This is the thing I love most about this game, the moral choices you have to make can be brutal and I have never felt as attached to a character in any game as I do my Agent.

Spoiler


I didn't reach dark 1 until the end of act 1.
Let them hate so long as they fear.

dijh's Avatar


dijh
02.21.2012 , 05:57 PM | #26
My understanding is that the anti-hero is a protagonist with the opposite attributes given to the classic hero (brave, idealistic, good, etc.) but the anti-villain is an antagonist with the opposite attributes given to the classic villain (evil, cowardly, destructive, etc.).

People gave good examples of each from pop culture such as Batman, The Good (from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly), and on as anti-heroes... and the likes of Ozymandias or Saren as great examples of anti-villains.

In your particular case, your Light-Side Sith would either be an anti-hero or a hero because for you, your character is the protagonist of the story. She has the ideals and morals of a good person, and depending on the way you take her story, she could very well just be a hero who overcomes the adversity of the culture she was born to... or well, be an anti-hero because she has strong morals but still works for an organization as bad as the Empire.

She'd only be an anti-villain if she was an antagonist - that is, the story isn't told from her perspective, she was there stopping the hero (anti- or not) along the way, even if for good intentions.

Apologies if someone made this distinction already, but I admittedly didn't read every post thoroughly.

Arodin's Avatar


Arodin
02.21.2012 , 06:38 PM | #27
This is why I really enjoy this game and I don't understand people who belittle the choices and freedom of the story. Even if the major plot points don't change radically based on your light/dark decisions, the vibe of the story and your character's personality is completely different.

Anyway, labels are always imprecise. Anti-hero and anti-villain are fine if you want to a nice label on your character, but I don't think it's necessary. I think it simplifies things too much to do that.

I think a dark-side Jedi is more interesting than a 100% light-side Jedi, because he or she is a flawed character, and they're always more interesting and more human. Even in the movies, there are times when the most heroic Jedi characters say or do things that might have awarded them a few dark-side points. Depending on where you choose to make your dark choices, you may be someone who wants to do right but is impatient and bad-tempered. Or you may be a good person who hates the empire so much that you can't stop yourself from hurting and killing them at every opportunity. Or you may be completely sadistic and evil, but still loyal to the Republic.

Conversely, a light-side Sith could be seen as a good person in a bad situation. Your whole life and family are with the Empire, so you don't want to believe that you're part of something evil. Or you might believe that the Empire is evil, but figure you can do your part to try and change that from within. Or you might be kinda evil yourself, but you still have enough of a conscience so that there is a line even you won't cross.

RepublicGurl's Avatar


RepublicGurl
02.23.2012 , 09:50 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by dijh View Post
My understanding is that the anti-hero is a protagonist with the opposite attributes given to the classic hero (brave, idealistic, good, etc.) but the anti-villain is an antagonist with the opposite attributes given to the classic villain (evil, cowardly, destructive, etc.).

People gave good examples of each from pop culture such as Batman, The Good (from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly), and on as anti-heroes... and the likes of Ozymandias or Saren as great examples of anti-villains.

In your particular case, your Light-Side Sith would either be an anti-hero or a hero because for you, your character is the protagonist of the story. She has the ideals and morals of a good person, and depending on the way you take her story, she could very well just be a hero who overcomes the adversity of the culture she was born to... or well, be an anti-hero because she has strong morals but still works for an organization as bad as the Empire.

She'd only be an anti-villain if she was an antagonist - that is, the story isn't told from her perspective, she was there stopping the hero (anti- or not) along the way, even if for good intentions.

Apologies if someone made this distinction already, but I admittedly didn't read every post thoroughly.
Um.

... I love you?

I am so going to show this to Krissie; you make very good points here, and I am hard-pressed to agree with them!

I find that in the whole shape of things (putting all the classes in perspective of the unfolding of the entire game) my Sith would be the anti-hero in that she's part of an Empire trying to take over, but she's still a hero of sorts because she is compassionate and trying to change said Empire from within.
"Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend..."

"Only a life lived for others is a life worth living for..."

BrainSplatter's Avatar


BrainSplatter
02.23.2012 , 10:54 AM | #29
they're both called anti-heroes but start out at opposite ends.
Glorious Collector's Edition owner, lording it over all the other plebs.

Beeska mu-moolee bu Halapu. Ho-ho-ho-ho!

Sibakero's Avatar


Sibakero
02.29.2012 , 07:08 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Hambunctious View Post
All of my sith are traitors at heart, and they take every opportunity to undermine the empire. They even refuse some missions, just because they know there is no good ending, even with the light side choice.

They told the jedi on korriban the truth that he was being manipulated after helping him escape. They refused to poison the slaves on Dromund Kaas with a quick death. They're still rebelling last time I visited. I have dozens more examples.

If I could have had a choice to stay with my SW master, I would have joined him just to have the chance to kill the emperor myself. As it is, I plot against the emperor from the inside, and I patiently wait for my opportunity.

Yeah, my sith are anti-villain.
Yup. Almost the same thing with my Sith Warrior Jugg Alt. He's trying to destroy the empire from within, well atleast the evil, insane, corrupted one. And in place, he sort of wants an empire that's pretty much like the "Modern British Empire". The Commonwealth is one of the most progressive, have the best quality of life in the countries that are under its banner. (i.e. NZ, Aus, Canada, etc..) Not yet 50, but currently 1250 LS points and 0 Dark side points. I hate the evil empire NPC's who require you to kill this, kill that, etc, especially for no reason, and my character loves to bash those *****s' noses in, but he's totally nice to the weak and to those in need of his help, and he defends them. (So, yeah, he totally hates Darth Baras and answers back in disgust :P) He only kills(storywise) if it's absolutely, really necessary, or if it's someone bad and is basically a waste of space in the SW universe.

Since my Main is a T5 Light sided Jedi Consular Seer, my SW sort of is part of something like the Empire's Operation of
Spoiler
But the version for the republic. But then he doesn't really work for the republic, he just wants the Sith Empire to be good So basically, he's like a Sheep in Wolf's Clothing.

Am Actually thinking of gathering people who have the same mindset as that and starting a guild. It will prolly be based in one of the Oceanic Servers(but anywhere could do, west coast more pref if can't go Oceanic. From NZ here) Cause I'm really sick and tired of grouping up with people who play the empire and play it DS and then criticize you for choosing Light. "Light Side?!? ***!?! Be Evil..yada, yada, yada.." Well, FYI, this is my $15 a month and this is how I want to play it, so don't diss. I didn't diss you if you wanted to kill the general in BT and so on...

So yeah, if any of you out there want to start a guild that would cater to us like minded LS Sith, PM me! I'm RPing it like we're deep undercover agents, trying to change the Empire from within.