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Vader vs Revan


Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
04.08.2012 , 05:55 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Master_Kallybykk View Post
You're kidding me with this, right? Revan would tear Vader and Palpatine to shreds without breaking a sweat. Jedi and Sith both drastically declined in strength after the Old Republic era. nobody in Republic Classic could hold a candle to an iconic character of the Old Republic
Yeah that's why the most powerful Jedi and Sith existed during the Rise of the Empire era right? then the NJO era? Right? yeh, cus that all makes sense.

In the future I'd suggest not taking Kreia's word as canon fact, her being a compulsive liar after all.

Darth_Eminok's Avatar


Darth_Eminok
04.08.2012 , 06:07 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
1. I realize that, but he still had his suit resistant to lighting.

2. That doesn't mean he would lose to Revan, in fact even when he was fighting Galen disinterested he still had a hard time beating him.

3. He probably did on some planets, but he also faced 8 jedi alone on kessel when he was still getting used to his suit and he killed 5 of them. Before the 501st came and killed the rest.

4. I didn't say that, I was just merely saying that he killed more then younglings he also killed the jedi masters and the battlemaster of the whole order.
1. No comment.

2. The original Galen literally tore through Vader's armor at the death star WHILE VADER WAS FIGHTING AT A MUCH STRONGER AND FASTER PACE THAN IN TFU 2.

3. Yet Revan took down so many more at the same time... you forget this? And considering the Exile is more powerful than Revan (as stated by Kreia and personal awareness), the Exile would tear Vader apart if Revan was stronger. (Which Revan is).

4. No comment.
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Master_Kallybykk's Avatar


Master_Kallybykk
04.08.2012 , 06:17 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Err...no.

1. Vader tweaked his suit to resist force lighting, however he couldn't resist Palpatine's lighting because it was the strongest ever.

2. Doesn't really help much, since he fought Galen(clone) who used two sabers and even then he wasn't really trying fighting disinterested.

3. Hmm...Vader took down the jedi temple with just a legion of clones, he then later went on to take over several worlds and hunted down whatever jedi he could find after Order 66.

4. Again...yes he did, but he also killed all the jedi masters in the temple(save for Shaak Ti who ran away)
1. "tweaked his suit to resist force lightning" my ***! he had four, countem, FOUR seconds of INDIRECT contact with Palpatine's lightning which, I must argue, is clearly NOT "the strongest ever". have you seen the lightning that inquisitors can throw out in TOR? And that four seconds shut down his cooling systems and life support.

2. That means nothing, it's just the way he fights. notice how it never changes even when he takes his beating from Luke, he still has a disinterested air about him.

3. Great, he had an entire legion, Revan had two buddies backing him up in a place designed to pump out and entire army (Rakata designed, no less) all the while having Bastila's Battle Meditation used against them.

4. That's all well and good, but I have two things to say. First, that was before he had his other hand cut off along with his legs and was put in a bionic body with a big mask and cape which probably restricts movement quite a bit. Second, if Vader could take all those guys in the temple out, so can Obi-Wan who, if I'm not mistaken, put Anakin in his place.

On top of all of that, Old Republic Jedi were stronger, Period. You've got the Mandalorian Wars, the Jedi Civil War AND the Jedi vs. Sith War that's going on in the game. they bred fighters back then because of all the wars they had to fight in. The Prequels had "peace keepers" who then fought a war against droids and the occasional Dark Force User. I'm sensing a supreme difference in strength and combat expertise.

Now, all that aside, look at Ben Kenobi. he's an old guy, right? not exactly in his prime? well neither is Vader, under all the burn scarring and mechanics, he's an old man who's not as fast as he used to be. now put him against a more experienced, younger opponent who still has all his limbs attached.
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Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
04.08.2012 , 06:22 PM | #114
The lack of canonical knowledge is disturbing.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.08.2012 , 06:38 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by Master_Kallybykk View Post
1. "tweaked his suit to resist force lightning" my ***! he had four, countem, FOUR seconds of INDIRECT contact with Palpatine's lightning which, I must argue, is clearly NOT "the strongest ever". have you seen the lightning that inquisitors can throw out in TOR? And that four seconds shut down his cooling systems and life support.

2. That means nothing, it's just the way he fights. notice how it never changes even when he takes his beating from Luke, he still has a disinterested air about him.

3. Great, he had an entire legion, Revan had two buddies backing him up in a place designed to pump out and entire army (Rakata designed, no less) all the while having Bastila's Battle Meditation used against them.

4. That's all well and good, but I have two things to say. First, that was before he had his other hand cut off along with his legs and was put in a bionic body with a big mask and cape which probably restricts movement quite a bit. Second, if Vader could take all those guys in the temple out, so can Obi-Wan who, if I'm not mistaken, put Anakin in his place.

On top of all of that, Old Republic Jedi were stronger, Period. You've got the Mandalorian Wars, the Jedi Civil War AND the Jedi vs. Sith War that's going on in the game. they bred fighters back then because of all the wars they had to fight in. The Prequels had "peace keepers" who then fought a war against droids and the occasional Dark Force User. I'm sensing a supreme difference in strength and combat expertise.

Now, all that aside, look at Ben Kenobi. he's an old guy, right? not exactly in his prime? well neither is Vader, under all the burn scarring and mechanics, he's an old man who's not as fast as he used to be. now put him against a more experienced, younger opponent who still has all his limbs attached.
1. Ya four seconds of force lighting from the most powerful sith lord ever, thats all that took to completely destroy his armor it wasn't really indirect either you could see it going through his body. When before he took Galen's lighting, which was powered by two electric poles using actual lighting to amplify his lighting and all that did was bring him down to one knee.

2. He wasn't disinterested when he fought his son, he was conflicted. He didn't want to kill Luke, when he fought Galen's clone he was fighting that way just because he wanted to by choice.

3. You forgot the Republic helping them out?

4. Except no, Obi-Wan wouldn't be able to because he isn't aggressive nor as powerful as Anakin. The only reason he pretty much floored all the masters in the temple, including the battlemaster because he was utilizing the form he mastered in a much more brutal fashion. He was pretty much bull rushing Obi-Wan throughout their entire fight, not letting up at all and Obi-Wan took a huge gamble with the hill top.

Err no the jedi of the PT are far superior to any jedi in the Old Republic, GL has stated that the jedi of the PT is their prime. Yoda was the most powerful until Luke, not to mention they had some very powerful jedi. They had Qui-Gon, Dooku(before he became sith), Cin Drallig, Obi-Wan, Anakin Skywalker, Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, etc all those jedi were some of the most powerful in the whole jedi order.

No old Ben wasn't his prime, however Vader in the suit was his prime.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

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Master_Kallybykk's Avatar


Master_Kallybykk
04.08.2012 , 06:38 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Yeah that's why the most powerful Jedi and Sith existed during the Rise of the Empire era right? then the NJO era? Right? yeh, cus that all makes sense.

In the future I'd suggest not taking Kreia's word as canon fact, her being a compulsive liar after all.
Dunno what "word" of Kreia's you think I'm going on, cuz I'm sure as hell wasn't thinking about her when I wrote the comment. And this entire thread so far has been based around info from KoTOR and TFU, so there's really no use complaining about it now
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Master_Kallybykk's Avatar


Master_Kallybykk
04.08.2012 , 07:04 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
1. Ya four seconds of force lighting from the most powerful sith lord ever, thats all that took to completely destroy his armor it wasn't really indirect either you could see it going through his body. When before he took Galen's lighting, which was powered by two electric poles using actual lighting to amplify his lighting and all that did was bring him down to one knee.

2. He wasn't disinterested when he fought his son, he was conflicted. He didn't want to kill Luke, when he fought Galen's clone he was fighting that way just because he wanted to by choice.

3. You forgot the Republic helping them out?

4. Except no, Obi-Wan wouldn't be able to because he isn't aggressive nor as powerful as Anakin. The only reason he pretty much floored all the masters in the temple, including the battlemaster because he was utilizing the form he mastered in a much more brutal fashion. He was pretty much bull rushing Obi-Wan throughout their entire fight, not letting up at all and Obi-Wan took a huge gamble with the hill top.

Err no the jedi of the PT are far superior to any jedi in the Old Republic, GL has stated that the jedi of the PT is their prime. Yoda was the most powerful until Luke, not to mention they had some very powerful jedi. They had Qui-Gon, Dooku(before he became sith), Cin Drallig, Obi-Wan, Anakin Skywalker, Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, etc all those jedi were some of the most powerful in the whole jedi order.

No old Ben wasn't his prime, however Vader in the suit was his prime.
1. Vader took 4 seconds from him, where as Luke took like four bursts of it and then a continuous stream, he was just fine afterwards. And if you insist on saying that a wrinkly grey prune was the "most powerful Sith Lord ever", then being thrown over a safety rail is a pretty pathetic way to be brought down. I still say that he wasn't, lightning was the only Dark Side trick we ever see him use. Show me grip. Show me Dark clones. Show me something different if he's so strong in the Dark Side... And Vader was still brought down over and over and over again, how doesn't really matter. The electric poles were just for in game flare, besides, you try moving at all to get to your knees with that much voltage in your body.

2. Doesn't change the fact that his fighting style stayed the same. No way he was disinterested in the person who brought him within an inch of his life twice. And we all know he was conflicted about fighting Luke, that doesn't change the fact that he's gonna defend himslef.

3. You forgot that they were losing? they didn't find a real opening to be of any assistance until AFTER Revan defeated Bastila and had her reverse the Battle Meditation.

4. Old Republic Jedi survived three consecutive wars and then beat back the Sith in the current war in the game. The ones in the Prequels didn't have that kind of experience and only had to fight a single war which consisted of mostly droids, Dooku and Ventress, and when it came down to it, none of them were prepared to fight a real Sith Warrior. You have those as your examples, I'm pretty sure they're all dead now, anyway, aside from Luke. We've got Bastila, Revan, the Exile, Satele, Jolee Bindo, Malak (before he fell with Revan) and who knows, we might even count Knight and Consular characters in TOR to add to that list.
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Master_Kallybykk's Avatar


Master_Kallybykk
04.08.2012 , 07:10 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
1. Ya four seconds of force lighting from the most powerful sith lord ever, thats all that took to completely destroy his armor it wasn't really indirect either you could see it going through his body. When before he took Galen's lighting, which was powered by two electric poles using actual lighting to amplify his lighting and all that did was bring him down to one knee.

2. He wasn't disinterested when he fought his son, he was conflicted. He didn't want to kill Luke, when he fought Galen's clone he was fighting that way just because he wanted to by choice.

3. You forgot the Republic helping them out?

4. Except no, Obi-Wan wouldn't be able to because he isn't aggressive nor as powerful as Anakin. The only reason he pretty much floored all the masters in the temple, including the battlemaster because he was utilizing the form he mastered in a much more brutal fashion. He was pretty much bull rushing Obi-Wan throughout their entire fight, not letting up at all and Obi-Wan took a huge gamble with the hill top.

Err no the jedi of the PT are far superior to any jedi in the Old Republic, GL has stated that the jedi of the PT is their prime. Yoda was the most powerful until Luke, not to mention they had some very powerful jedi. They had Qui-Gon, Dooku(before he became sith), Cin Drallig, Obi-Wan, Anakin Skywalker, Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, etc all those jedi were some of the most powerful in the whole jedi order.

No old Ben wasn't his prime, however Vader in the suit was his prime.
4. You forget that Obi only ever fought defensively. who knows how good he is when he's being aggressive? And even if it was a gamble, which I wouldn't think so because he had a point about having the high ground, it worked and Anakin was just too stubborn not to jump like an idiot

Vader in the suit certainly was not in his prime, he was an old man with no arms or legs of his own a bulky suit with terrible visibility
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Tsukae's Avatar


Tsukae
04.08.2012 , 09:33 PM | #119
Vader, even with his destroyed body, is vastly more powerful than Revan could ever hope to be. Vader is the third most powerful force user ever. The force users from the time of the old Republic really can't compare.
"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul." - Kreia

_Zorth_'s Avatar


_Zorth_
04.08.2012 , 11:53 PM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by Master_Kallybykk View Post
1. Vader took 4 seconds from him, where as Luke took like four bursts of it and then a continuous stream, he was just fine afterwards. And if you insist on saying that a wrinkly grey prune was the "most powerful Sith Lord ever", then being thrown over a safety rail is a pretty pathetic way to be brought down. I still say that he wasn't, lightning was the only Dark Side trick we ever see him use. Show me grip. Show me Dark clones. Show me something different if he's so strong in the Dark Side... And Vader was still brought down over and over and over again, how doesn't really matter. The electric poles were just for in game flare, besides, you try moving at all to get to your knees with that much voltage in your body.


Watch the movie again, Watch the facial expressions..
Palpatne was laughing and mocking Luke when electrocuting him, He was screaming and shouting for his life when electrocuting Vader..

Big difference.


2. Doesn't change the fact that his fighting style stayed the same. No way he was disinterested in the person who brought him within an inch of his life twice. And we all know he was conflicted about fighting Luke, that doesn't change the fact that he's gonna defend himslef.


His conflict greatly diminished his strength.


3. You forgot that they were losing? they didn't find a real opening to be of any assistance until AFTER Revan defeated Bastila and had her reverse the Battle Meditation.


THe moment he stepped into her chambers her battle meditation ended, They fought.. she lost, He used her to defeat Malak.. Somebody he had defeated before.


4. Old Republic Jedi survived three consecutive wars and then beat back the Sith in the current war in the game. The ones in the Prequels didn't have that kind of experience and only had to fight a single war which consisted of mostly droids, Dooku and Ventress, and when it came down to it, none of them were prepared to fight a real Sith Warrior. You have those as your examples, I'm pretty sure they're all dead now, anyway, aside from Luke. We've got Bastila, Revan, the Exile, Satele, Jolee Bindo, Malak (before he fell with Revan) and who knows, we might even count Knight and Consular characters in TOR to add to that list.

GL's word is final.. He says the PT jedi are the golden age of the jedi and I'll take GL's word any day over Kreia's.

Opinion =/= Fact

GL's Opinion = Fact
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