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HM Flashpoints with "Enrage Timers" only ... why?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
HM Flashpoints with "Enrage Timers" only ... why?

Kaonis's Avatar

02.16.2012 , 11:58 PM | #21
The biggest issue with enrage is it punishes newer people coming in, or if you have a single person not fully on par with gear/spec/skill and the whole group comes grinding to a halt. Without it, sure if you had a crap DPS dragging you down a bit you could still manage and compensate for it and pull through. however the devs decided 1 person doesn't just drag you down, they sink you to the bottom and keep you there.

This doesn't even cover the fact enrage mechanics make for elitist attitudes and causes inflexibility in fights. I've yet to have a fight where someone died for whatever reason, weather the tank was stunned and couldn't taunt, the healer got a nasty lag spike, or just missed a stun to prevent a nasty attack and someone dies, where we have actually pulled through, because every time the boss enrages because we lost precious DPS time.

I came from FFXI which was pretty harsh, but honestly the enrage mechanics in this game are the harshest mechanic I've seen in a game to date in punishing players for not getting things "just right".

Kinada's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 12:06 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by AlyII View Post
I loved the storyline of the game, the lvl-ing experience, the fact that we have companions that can help us in heroics and flashpoints, but once we entered in hard mode flashpoints (after 2 weeks of grinding daylies for better gear, which wasn't very fun) everything became insane and exaggerated because of "enrage timers" ,a woeful way of transforming a nice game in a frustrating and impossible experience. If you want to keep the same high quality of the game take out the timers from HM flashpoints ,this way all of us will be able to do our "epic" crafts and maybe an armor set (still the costs for sets are insane).If you want to keep the hardcore players happy you can introduce an "insane" mode with timers and something extra to keep them satisfied. Also would be nice to have normal and HM versions of all flashpoints for 2 and 3 players . A combat log , target of target and threat display also would be most helpful. The saddest thing about "enrage timers" is the fact that the enraged boss simply kills the players in one shot making them feel helpless and useless, taking away any desire of playing or coming back to the game. After more than 300 hours spent in game to lvl-up and gear the character this is not the feeling that you expect to get from the end game content, especially after Bioware has invested so much time and money in storylines that make us feel so heroic and unique.
It takes 6 days of doing dailies (1 day per piece of modable gear) to fill up all your modables minus belt/bracer if you happen to have those. A very small investment at the GTN will get you a top of the line earring and implantx2.

At this point ALL of your gear (minus belt and bracer unless you buy those off the GTN as well) is better than the Tionese gear dropping from HM Flashpoints.

There is no excuse for hitting the enrage timers with that gear. My first HM was done with 2 tanks, 1 dps and 1 healer cause we were the only 50s on. We only hit the enrage on the final boss and then only for about 3-4 seconds before she died. Also did Boarding Party HM with only 3 people. On top of that enrages do NOT 1-hit players. Last time I had something enraged hit me it only hit for about 8500. Your tank should have somewhere around 17.5k hps in daily gear and with cooldowns that is survivable long enough to finish the boss off if you haven't just been afking through the fight.

I can only assume that the other players in your group didn't do the dailies like you claimed, didn't buy their ear/implants like they should, and didn't bother to use all of their abilities/cooldowns and what they did use wasn't used properly.

The hard mode flashpoints are not tuned on a razors edge and are not hard to defeat.

Learn to play.

firesprite_ea's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 01:35 AM | #23
In the beginning I though enrage timers are insane and bosses one shot everything. But with a bit of practice it turned out to be quite manageable. As was mentined above, with daily slotted gear you can kill bosses without enrage timer. We did so with FE, Battle for Illum, Taral V. In some very rare situation boss DID hit enrage - it was usually due to some wrong moves from our side (dps got random hit and died..happens...rarely). And even then enrage is only 200% dmg dealt. In most cases this is NOT insta kill. Well ... three hits usually kill tank with no defencive CD. but you CAN survive and boss should already be at his last 5k-7k HP.

So my advice:1
1) try different party setup. We are currently playing with sentinel gunslinger kinetic shadow healing sage and IMO this is a very nice group.
2) Get VoiP. Communication is vital. If you can talk to other groupmembers you can react faster. Even if you can not gather all 4 ppl - you can always use skype to coordinate 2 ppl. And that is >>>>> than 0 coordination
3) Practise. Simple as that. Also you can find other FP more easy. We failed our Taral V end boss a lot before we killed it. Yet we have finished FE with easy on our first run. Same with Battle for illum (wiped one time on the end boss).

TLDR. Enrage can be considered lame. Yet if you play correctly (not uberplayer, not hardcore player. Just play well) - you will not encounter it.

maxbaby's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 01:56 AM | #24
I also think that HM FPs should be a step up to operations and not vice-versa when you facreoll EV with people in half-greens and struggle on a simple boss in HM with the same people.

HellFlame's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 02:47 AM | #25
How about OP use search?... i think there are 100 threads about that and in each is explained why theres enrage...
SW:TOR Endgame

theblaznee's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 05:45 AM | #26
It's still lazy having it as the main "hard" thing to beat in harder modes.. Ofcourse there's a need for enrage or a tank and a healer could just complete the whole thing by themselves..
But making hardmode and nightmaremode simply a gear check once you know the mechanics is just lazy..
Don't mistake my silence for ignorance, my calmness for acceptance or my kindness for weakness!

Fight hard, die well!

Onnya's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 06:14 AM | #27
To those that keep saying "learn to play" and the like, I would like to point out that most people complaining about enrages have done the HM modes, have managed to make it in time (so the skill and the gear are there), but they just don't like it, as it is restricting and you can only do these with a certain group composition or with gear that is better than/equal to what you get from that flashpoint (so what's the point and where's the motivation?).

I think it's exactly the opposite of "fun"to have to tell one of your guild mates "you're not coming with us because you are not geared enough or the wrong class/spec", and then you don't do anything because the "right class" is missing at that moment. And you don't even have dual spec... And how is a guild supposed to help its members, if taking a mediocre player along, or a player that is not very well gearerd simply won't let you progress through a HM? Where is the team spirit? In saying "go grind your dailies, get geared, learn how to play and only then we can group"?

What I'm trying to say is that debates like this one can go on like forever, because people are (fortunately) different, each of us expect something else from a game and think it's fun to do different things. So, if an MMO like SWTOR wants to get more players or keep those they already have, they should give more options, a little something for everyone. So why not have more options, flashes scaled to the number of players and dual spec? Not to mention that, if one day I really feel like doing somehting solo, why not? If I'm willing to spend 4 hours in HM solo (with my companion), it's better for BW because I spend more time ingame and good for me because I'm doing what I want. This is a win-win situation.

From that to enrage timers that wipe a whole group in seconds and make flashes a dps rush...there's a looong looong way.

Krepid's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 06:22 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by AlyII View Post
A combat log , target of target and threat display also would be most helpful.
If you'd even tried to look you'd realise there was already a target of target shortcut.

Onnya's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 07:03 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Krepid View Post
If you'd even tried to look you'd realise there was already a target of target shortcut.
There is no target of target DISPLAY.

Fdzzaigl's Avatar

02.17.2012 , 07:07 AM | #30
I just want more fights that depend on mechanics than fights that are just DPS races, Mentor in D7 is a good example of a fight with a great deal of actual mechanics people need to pay attention to while not having to race DPS.

It's extremely frustrating when you're doing everything perfectly right, but die at 5-10% because one party member doesn't have much gear yet.