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Whats wrong with 13 arse/28 pyro pvp?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Whats wrong with 13 arse/28 pyro pvp?
 

Jurgen-Ferik's Avatar


Jurgen-Ferik
02.15.2012 , 10:34 PM | #1
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#30...oMZcIRrzhhMc.1

Basically picking up tracer for some heavy hitting sustain dps, and then getting Inc. Missles for dots and run and gun.

Lets face it, Thermal detonator isn't much better than explosive darts and the rest of the top tier of Pyro is just shield procs, that won't sustain your survivability by much. So why take em?

Yeahm you'll most likely be in CGC most of the time and won't get the full advantage of Tracer, but you'll still hit harder or just as hard as Thermal and increase your heat signature for rail shots.

Seems like the best of both worlds to me.
Underpowered Valor Rank 80 Pew Pew Merc.
SWG: Huan the Wookie, Flurry Server

Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
02.16.2012 , 02:08 AM | #2
I tried a hybrid Arsenal/Pyro build that was similar to yours. Namely I gave up Thermal Det in order to get Tracer Missile. It's a viable build. But it's not outright superior to a Pyro focused build. There are trade-offs as one might expect. The advantage of Thermal Det is in PvE play - in particular it's lack of an explosive radius makes it the preferred way to pick off standard enemies after you have cc'ed an elite/strong. The benefit is the known PvP strength of Tracer Missile.

I will say that I think there are some strange items in your particular build. There's not really any reason to put two points into Target Tracking when you aren't even going to get one of the two abilities that use it. I'd use those 2 pts and put them into Power Barrier or Energy Rebounder. Yes those are "only" Shield procs. But once you get into higher level PvP and become one of the "names" on your team, you will discover that you are known by the enemy as well and you will be getting hit continuously. Having shields up saves your team's healer a TON of casts/energy.

Kunovega's Avatar


Kunovega
02.16.2012 , 03:49 AM | #3
pointless

taking tracer missile without the top skills in arsenal is a misunderstanding of the way tracer functions

take a moment to understand this:

power shot (assuming you actually have decent weapons) is MORE damage than tracer missile for the exact same amount of heat and casting time

what you need to understand is that the only purpose to tracer missile is to proc higher damage using:
riddle, barrage, tracer lock, lightem up, all bonus damage add ons to make unload, heat seeker and rail shot hit for more damage. on top of this the eliminator armor set boosts tracer crit rating which further feeds terminal velocity for heat management

tracer missile is a synergy builder for the top of the arsenal tree

taking it in your build is nothing short of stupid as all you have managed to do is waste points to get a tracer missile that is not as good as a skill you already have (power shot) and does not synergize well with the rest of the pyro tree

builds like this make mercs look bad
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Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
02.16.2012 , 02:39 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Kunovega View Post
pointless.....what you need to understand is that the only purpose to tracer missile is to proc higher damage using:
riddle, barrage, tracer lock, lightem up, all bonus damage add ons to make unload, heat seeker and rail shot hit for more damage.
Personally after some testing I moved away from the hybrid setup, but I think you have failed to understand some aspects of the setup. PowerShot's synergy with RailShot is extremely limited. At just a 30% chance to grant a free RS, you are spending on average 83.333 (25/.3) heat to get that RS. At that rate after you fire off your free RS, you are done - you've completely screwed up your heat dissipation rate and your usefulness on a PvP team is limited for a long time. In contrast TracerMissile reduces the target's armor for ALL of your teammates. This is of critical value if you are trying to take down a heavily armored ball carrier in Huttie, or trying to neutralize a high value enemy healer that is anchoring a turret/door defense.

The hybrid setup isn't outright better than Merc Pyro, rather it shifts some of the build's focus from PvE to PvP. Correspondingly, in comparison to Merc Arsenal, it is heavily more oriented towards PvE than PvP.

ShizzySupra's Avatar


ShizzySupra
02.16.2012 , 04:19 PM | #5
In huttball a ball carrier is moving quite fast, most notable being pulled by Sorc's or leaping. Are you actually implying that the reduction in armor on that one target is more viable than an instant damage dealer on it such as HeatSeeker/TD? Tracer Missile also has a 1.5 second cast time. More than likely unless you are in perfect position the Huttball target will break LOS on you. I would say that spec is broken, you are a gimped Arsenal Merc and you don't have as much mobility as a Pyro-Merc.


Quote: Originally Posted by Macroecon View Post
Personally after some testing I moved away from the hybrid setup, but I think you have failed to understand some aspects of the setup. PowerShot's synergy with RailShot is extremely limited. At just a 30% chance to grant a free RS, you are spending on average 83.333 (25/.3) heat to get that RS. At that rate after you fire off your free RS, you are done - you've completely screwed up your heat dissipation rate and your usefulness on a PvP team is limited for a long time. In contrast TracerMissile reduces the target's armor for ALL of your teammates. This is of critical value if you are trying to take down a heavily armored ball carrier in Huttie, or trying to neutralize a high value enemy healer that is anchoring a turret/door defense.

The hybrid setup isn't outright better than Merc Pyro, rather it shifts some of the build's focus from PvE to PvP. Correspondingly, in comparison to Merc Arsenal, it is heavily more oriented towards PvE than PvP.

Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
02.16.2012 , 06:04 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by ShizzySupra View Post
In huttball a ball carrier is moving quite fast, most notable being pulled by Sorc's or leaping.
Actually in Huttie, the ball carrier moves with a distinct Slow penalty. And in a game with evenly matched teams, the ball carrier will get pulled back (requiring further movement) as often as he is pulled forward.

Quote: Originally Posted by ShizzySupra View Post
Are you actually implying that the reduction in armor on that one target is more viable than an instant damage dealer on it such as HeatSeeker/TD? Tracer Missile also has a 1.5 second cast time. More than likely unless you are in perfect position the Huttball target will break LOS on you. I would say that spec is broken, you are a gimped Arsenal Merc and you don't have as much mobility as a Pyro-Merc.
Your statement seems to argue that an Merc Arsenal should abandon using TM and simply use HeatSeeker straight away. I find that highly problematic, and I think most other Mercs would as well.

No, regardless of your view, most people with TM will use it as a precursor attack. The only question is, does the lack of follow up attacks that receive benefits from the upper half of the Arsenal tree gimp this hybrid? And the answer is, it depends. In a 1v1 situation, I think it does. But....

In a 8 person team scenario, the reduction in armor effect vs. the target for your teammates is OF COURSE more important than the reduction in armor for you. There are seven of THEM and only ONE of you. Any argument about LOS breakage (which to start with is dubious for the Slowed ball carrier) rebounds because even if the ball carrier did break LOS, the odds of him breaking LOS vs. all of your teammates is much lower than the odds of him simply breaking LOS vs. you.

Jurgen-Ferik's Avatar


Jurgen-Ferik
02.16.2012 , 08:09 PM | #7
thanks to everybody who is being a total **** while i'm thinking outside the box.

Anyway, I think this build that gildart posted is better but gives the same flexibility:
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#30...Rbd0zZMIrbzM.1
Underpowered Valor Rank 80 Pew Pew Merc.
SWG: Huan the Wookie, Flurry Server

DarkenDragon's Avatar


DarkenDragon
02.16.2012 , 10:01 PM | #8
2 problems, why would you be using tracer missiles, like above have said, its a synergy ability, and without going deep into arsenal, you wont get that synergy. also if your pyrospec you'll most likly be using combustion cylinder, tracer missiles doesnt apply the proc, only ranged abilities do.

so what was your plan? just spam a weak tracer missile and do absolutly nothing?

and if you switch to high velocity cylinders, then you just wasted a ton of talent points that improves combustion cylinder.

this is just a bad idea and absolutly not viable at all. no matter what you do, your just wasting points and damage potiental

also if your gonna think outside the box, please actually do some thinking while your at it

ShizzySupra's Avatar


ShizzySupra
02.16.2012 , 11:30 PM | #9
All of this is true.

Macro, you obviously just don't get it at all. My guess is your valor level is extremely low and you are a baddie. I was referring to HIS hybrid build and using Velocity over CGC.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkenDragon View Post
2 problems, why would you be using tracer missiles, like above have said, its a synergy ability, and without going deep into arsenal, you wont get that synergy. also if your pyrospec you'll most likly be using combustion cylinder, tracer missiles doesnt apply the proc, only ranged abilities do.

so what was your plan? just spam a weak tracer missile and do absolutly nothing?

and if you switch to high velocity cylinders, then you just wasted a ton of talent points that improves combustion cylinder.

this is just a bad idea and absolutly not viable at all. no matter what you do, your just wasting points and damage potiental

also if your gonna think outside the box, please actually do some thinking while your at it

Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
02.17.2012 , 12:06 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ShizzySupra View Post
Macro, you obviously just don't get it at all. My guess is your valor level is extremely low and you are a baddie. I was referring to HIS hybrid build and using Velocity over CGC.
I'm Valor 68. High enough to have seen that there are a lot of different combat situations. And to know that it is very rare for one setup to be Pareto superior in all of them.