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Time to end Biochem reusables

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Time to end Biochem reusables
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SaerethDL's Avatar


SaerethDL
02.24.2012 , 11:39 AM | #231
Quote: Originally Posted by Sonaria View Post
They've been nerfing biochem already. So you want to nerf it so much that it's no longer useful?? My alt that has biochem isn't that high, but I don't see the problem. That's the benefit of going biochem, you get the reusable medpacks/stims/adrenals. It doesn't seem that medpacks/adrenals/stims are in that much demand, but implants are useful for selling on the GTN.

If biochem didn't have reusables, what would be the point? You could just go with vendor consumables. Just saying..
Nothing else is no longer useful because biochem is the OP profession you must have to min/max
"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan, and yet you are nothing. In the end you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."

GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
02.24.2012 , 12:27 PM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by Remulan View Post
All those things you listed would make those professions have actual combat advantages. Biochem right now offers you credits just like the other tradeskills do, it just saves them for you instead of making them for you.

All the tradeskills basically do the same thing, increase the amount of credits you have to spend on things. Some need more items to sell to be more profitable, but that is an issue with those skills, not biochem.
True... sort of. The problem is savings isn't easily balanceable vs. profits. If you're just trying to balance profits, then supply and demand will pretty much do it for you. If one skill is more profitable, more people will pick it up, supply will go up, and profits will go down until things are back in "balance".

Savings, however, needs to be hand balanced by the devs by tweaking the cost of what is being saved on to other players. (and, to point out, biochems *also* have profit sources too, which makes the whole thing quite difficult). Currently, things are tuned such that the savings dramatically outweigh any feasible profit. Very rough figure, but for every adrenal/medpack I use, I'd have to sell 2 items. (assuming both biochem and non-biochem are selling for 100% profit margin... stuff takes roughly same amount of mats to make, and thus costs are roughly comparable) I can use adrenals every 3 minutes, medpacks every 1.5 So basically, If I'm playing to my utmost as a biochem does, I'd have to sell at least 2 items every minute.

Not gonna happen.


So, basically, 1 of 5 things *is going* to happen:
1. "savings will be balanced". The yield on consumable adrenals/medpacks will be significantly increased (I'm talking yields of 99-198 instead of 1-2.) such that the cost of the finished items goes WAY down, so the reuseability isn't a source of significant savings for the biochem, thus allowing biochem to be balanced on the profits, not really on the savings. (Entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account)
2. Reuseables will be removed.
3. Reuseables will be nerfed to the point where nobody is largely going to bother using them anyways, (so basically same as #2)
4. Reuseables will lose the biochem restriction. (again, entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account)
5. Other crewskills will gain similar perks, breaking them too. (again, entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account.)

2&3, needing no rebalance of the entire game, are the more likely/intelligent options. Stims are already *sort of* on path 1&3 "end game". Not yet 1-49.

Teaurie's Avatar


Teaurie
02.24.2012 , 01:46 PM | #233
reusables r only for biochemists, so i dont c how it affects the monetary market or how it should be removed, its part of our crafting and if some of you think they should take it away from us biochems, then its only fair to take things away from other crafters, which im sure the ones who want biochems to lose reusables will say o no dont take our stuff only take away stuff from others we cant use to give us an advantage.
UTINNI!!!!

Akella's Avatar


Akella
02.24.2012 , 02:03 PM | #234
Quote: Originally Posted by Saereth_Darklighter View Post
Nothing else is no longer useful because biochem is the OP profession you must have to min/max
If you are min/maxing then you are gimping yourself by using the biochem reusables. They are NOT the best available. They are a convenience for biochemists. The best available is not BOP and does not require biochem to use. If you would read a few posts back, someone listed each reusable with the consumable counterpart. You can clearly see that the reusables offer no combat advantage. The sole purpose of this thread is economical. It has already been stated as such several pages back.

We all know it's impossible to make any credits from any other profession other than biochem (sarcasm). I'm still trying to figure out how I keep making credits with artifice and cybertech on my alts. Millions of credits from those two useless professions. I've also made a few million credits with biochem. And interestingly enough none of it was from stims, medpacks or adrenals.
.
Never argue with a fool, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

SaerethDL's Avatar


SaerethDL
02.24.2012 , 02:04 PM | #235
Quote: Originally Posted by Akella View Post
If you are min/maxing then you are gimping yourself by using the biochem reusables. They are NOT the best available. They are a convenience for biochemists. The best available is not BOP and does not require biochem to use. If you would read a few posts back, someone listed each reusable with the consumable counterpart. You can clearly see that the reusables offer no combat advantage. The sole purpose of this thread is economical. It has already been stated as such several pages back.

We all know it's impossible to make any credits from any other profession other than biochem (sarcasm). I'm still trying to figure out how I keep making credits with artifice and cybertech on my alts. Millions of credits from those two useless professions.
MIN/MAX REUSEABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BLAH
"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan, and yet you are nothing. In the end you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."

Akella's Avatar


Akella
02.24.2012 , 02:07 PM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by Saereth_Darklighter View Post
MIN/MAX REUSEABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BLAH
What are you talking about or are you just talking?
.
Never argue with a fool, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
02.24.2012 , 02:47 PM | #237
Quote: Originally Posted by Teaurie View Post
reusables r only for biochemists, so i dont c how it affects the monetary market or how it should be removed, its part of our crafting and if some of you think they should take it away from us biochems, then its only fair to take things away from other crafters, which im sure the ones who want biochems to lose reusables will say o no dont take our stuff only take away stuff from others we cant use to give us an advantage.
I'd be perfectly willing to give up *everything* that armormech, cybertech, artifice, armstech, and synthweavers make that biochem can't use in exchange for biochem giving up the things they make that armormechs, cybertechs, artifice, armstech synthweavers and non-crafters can't use.

Then nobody has an advantage.

Sylriana's Avatar


Sylriana
02.24.2012 , 02:55 PM | #238
Quote: Originally Posted by Saereth_Darklighter View Post
Nothing else is no longer useful because biochem is the OP profession you must have to min/max
Except.. not.

Quote:
So, basically, 1 of 5 things *is going* to happen:
1. "savings will be balanced". The yield on consumable adrenals/medpacks will be significantly increased (I'm talking yields of 99-198 instead of 1-2.) such that the cost of the finished items goes WAY down, so the reuseability isn't a source of significant savings for the biochem, thus allowing biochem to be balanced on the profits, not really on the savings. (Entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account)
2. Reuseables will be removed.
3. Reuseables will be nerfed to the point where nobody is largely going to bother using them anyways, (so basically same as #2)
4. Reuseables will lose the biochem restriction. (again, entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account)
5. Other crewskills will gain similar perks, breaking them too. (again, entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account.)
Most likely Option 1. Except with an actually realistic increase (10-50%) in yield rather than the pointless hyperbole.

2 and 3 is a pointless nerf to a crew skill that is already balanced, 4 will by extension restructure the way the crew skill works in a bad way.

5 would probably be implemented in some way, though not in the way you're thinking, as the only equalizing that needs to happen between Biochem and the other craft skills is for the others to have better access to high tier schematics ( so raiding doesn't obsolete them ).... which would hardly be gamebreaking.


Quote:
I'd be perfectly willing to give up *everything* that armormech, cybertech, artifice, armstech, and synthweavers make that biochem can't use in exchange for biochem giving up the things they make that armormechs, cybertechs, artifice, armstech synthweavers and non-crafters can't use.
This is a false argument though, because giving the non-consumable crew skills the ability to sell their BoPs is purely beneficial (or at best neutral, if the items end up being unprofitable ) from a trade perspective, whereas doing the same for Biochem fundamentally changes the crew skill and directly impacts the rest of its market ( and going back to the previous post, removing those entirely would only be partially harmful because of the imbalance in quality at top end ). In the former case, you're essentially saying you'd be more than happy to broaden your market base in exchange for me collapsing mine, in the former you're offering to shave your head if I chop off my leg.. it's hardly an equitable trade.

GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
02.24.2012 , 03:18 PM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by Sylriana View Post
Most likely Option 1. Except with an actually realistic increase (10-50%) in yield rather than the pointless hyperbole.
If you mean 10-50, I'd agree. (though leaning towards the 50 side). 10-50% increase in yield wouldn't do diddly. Even 50% would basically just mean every other craft gives me 2 instead of 1. They already did more than that with the lvl 50 stuff. (Which, IMO, doesn't go far enough when it comes to adrenals and medpacks)

(oh, and to note: I wasn't neccessarily saying yields between 99 and 198 in general, I was saying yield would go from a single item on a normal and 2 on a crit, to a stack on a normal, and 2 stacks on a crit, keeping the existing double when you crit.)

GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
02.24.2012 , 03:25 PM | #240
Almost forgot:

Quote: Originally Posted by Sylriana View Post
2 and 3 is a pointless nerf to a crew skill that is already balanced, 4 will by extension restructure the way the crew skill works in a bad way.
Except it isn't balanced. If it was then it wouldn't be inevitable they'd have to pick one of these options.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sylriana View Post
This is a false argument though, because giving the non-consumable crew skills the ability to sell their BoPs is purely beneficial (or at best neutral, if the items end up being unprofitable ) from a trade perspective, whereas doing the same for Biochem fundamentally changes the crew skill and directly impacts the rest of its market ( and going back to the previous post, removing those entirely would only be partially harmful because of the imbalance in quality at top end ). In the former case, you're essentially saying you'd be more than happy to broaden your market base in exchange for me collapsing mine, in the former you're offering to shave your head if I chop off my leg.. it's hardly an equitable trade.
Except there isn't a market for adrenals/medpacks. I have yet to ever sell a single one at cost, much less for a profit. Allowing me to sell the reuseable ones WILL be increasing my biochems market, (or at best neutral, if they end up being unprofitable too.) The only thing I make profit on as biochem is high end stims and implants.