A Gap Closer for Operatives

Does anyone consider applying pressure on a target, and keeping them from interacting with their team a stalemate/win?

I know as Scs and Ops, we always feel that we should kill everything within 9s, but do people consider dogging a Healer for about 30s, while he can't get to his ball carrier, so your team can kill the ball carrier, or peeling sniper so they can't burst your ball carrier down a win?

Yeah, it feels like "getting second place", but if your team wins because you remove their most dangerous player out of the situation, isn't that enough?

I have already mentioned that Op Healers are a bit harder to kill as an Conc Op than a Sorc. However, I must point out that you are exaggerating on numbers by quite a lot here.

1- Tox screen doesn't come close to 1.2k in PvP, even on a crit. An average of 500-600, frankly, would be generous.

2- SP isn't averaging 3k in PvP. Critting...sure. But not your average.

3- If you have 20k HP, you are using a pretty large amount of PvE gear and thus have lower expertise. Even with full BM, highest endurance mods, and a Fort stim, 18k is tough to hit in PvP gear with buffs.

Healer spec can, it's a talent called Sith Purity. Lets you cleanse physical dots with your existent dot cleanse.

I'm quite aware of Sith Purity, as my alt is a BM Sorc Healer. This talent allows Purge to also cleanse physical effects, as well as mental and force effects.

Now, go one step further and explain how this talent matters when you want to cleanse Sever Tendon?

Man, there is a hell of a lot of ignorance in this thread.

1)- People telling us ops/sco are ranged. This would be interesting if it were true, actually. And there are definitely a lack of scoundrels that crouch and cast sabo charge, which actually hits pretty hard. The problem is that, outside of crouch, we have two ranged attacks that deal damage- quick shot, which does very little damage, and flurry of bolts, which does negligible damage. Vital shot, a dot, is also up for consideration, but you often had it up already, and it certainly does not stack. For those who play wow, a rogue's deadly throw is generally better than two instant hits. I've certainly gotten kills with both, but only against players who escape with a sliver of life. The last ranged move, also from very low level, requires you to crouch, hold the crouch, and shoot. Unlike a gunslinger, who gets two guns here, we get just the one, and the damage is not very good.

If the intent is that we be threatening at range, then a good fix would be to increase the range on tendon blast (which I think can't happen because the op equiv probably uses some dumb sword), and to give us a ranged move baseline that, while less efficient over time and energy than the melee hits, is both spammable and effective. Since the dev design seems to be that we are melee, we don't really seem to get this.

I will say that I can count the number of times I've seen a non-me scoundrel or op crouch and fire the sabo charge on one hand, and that really IS a lot of damage to leave on the floor- like 3/4 a back blast I think? But with a 30 second cooldown...



2)- "Stealth is a gap closer"

This is a definite pet peeve of mine. Mostly this argument is used by people who never play stealth classes, or do so very casually and don't get why this is mostly silly.

Yes, if you are in stealth and see some guy walking towards you, you can approach, sidestep, open, and then you are in melee with them. It was a "gap closer" in that case, because if you had been a visible melee class you would have needed to USE a gap closer to get to that place. But... what if he's walking AWAY from you? A real gap closer would fix that- a scoundrel doesn't even have WoW's sprint! What if the enemy is in combat already, healing or damaging in a GROUP scenario? Now your "gap closer" is carefully threading a needle to reach him in order to attack- assuming you don't get blasted out by incidental aoe, this still takes several seconds. That's not a gap closer it's a crowd control. A jugg, mara, or sin would be all over that guy in that time.

The other thing is that stealth has a very long cooldown, and enforces a positional opener which can be entirely impossible to fix. Additionally, other classes have tools to deal with melee- they are balanced around using those tools versus classes with short cooldown charges, not classes that can be kited indefinitely.

Stealth is not a gap closer. Gap closers are gap closers.


3)- Something something assassin

The damage nerfs are, to me, shocking. Shoot First went from being a very powerful move to being merely a good one, and the armor pen nerf hurts every second of play. I assumed that the reason the class had no gap closer, when I rolled it, was because of the power of the alpha strikes and the general superiority in solo combat. The devs obviously did too. But that class is gone now, and I still have the same restrictions that I did back when my solo power was MUCH higher. The comparisons with assassins and shadows are likely not entirely apt, because the classes were meant to be very different- but now, it's difficult to justify.

4)- Huttball

Huttball is currently 1/3rd of the game, or far more if you are an operative. I mostly just leave huttball unless I recognize the names AND am the only scoundrel. A lot of people complaining about huttball get told "oh your main must be an operative". This is a big deal. Huttball is a sport much more than a warzone. Op/Sc are wholly inferior to EVERY other class in this. Being a healer isn't absolutely terrible, but you still have no ability to peel players or punish positioning, unlike other healers. Being damage on this map is pretty ludicrous.




Overall, I don't know what we need. When I was levelling, I noticed that I only got some of the rogue moves- for instance, I got sap, but no sprint. I assumed that the assassin probably had the mirror of that... but he seems to have carefully thought out equivalents to those. The big thing that stuck out to me is the alpha strike, and that got hammered into the ground. So a sprint, a different type of control, a grapple, a grip, the ability to ignore physics being as we don't even get to go to the party... something.

Full battlemaster (except belt / bracers I use oranges with 58 mods and 1 relic) I sit at 12% exp and 19400 health. Yes thats with a trooper buff and a stim (I use rakata Endo stim for PvP)

My Triage (tox screen) Hits for ~800 heal regular and ~1400 on a crit. Thats on me, I have 9% additional incoming healing from talents. I could get another 15% when DS is active but I dont value the talent points that much. I've never monitored its heals on others but take ~10% off and thats accurate.

EMP generally hits for ~1600 .. Crits are ~2800 in PvP with Trauma. (hence me saying 2-3K) I run 41% crit rate so I do crit a fair bit.

So no .. I did'ent over blow the numbers a fair bit at all really.

I should mention I never said EMP avr was 3K .. you did. I said a 3K heal is win .. and if you carried on reading that same line I went on teo say spamming 2-3K heals. Never said 3K avr there .. you did.


<Edit> Logged in and checked, I was close, I sit at 11% exp not 12% my bad !

Because if i gained enough distance i can kite you with occasional chammeling and hopin for procs at which time you will eat mind crash+fib

Anyway, sorc can escape you 100% of the time if they want to. Pwning noobs because they have bad gear or are just bad doesnt really matter.

Maybe...because it s a physical effect lol

That sounds great in practice, but in reality by the time your Sprint is done, you are still snared, your root is over and I have broken any snare with my Evasion and gaining any ground you got very quickly, and will be in melee range before my snare on you is over.

"Lol" no it isn't. Stop arguing if you don't know how the abilities work.

Except now boom, you get hit with electrocute, and are now being spam-channeled with force lightning for an aditional snare on top of that 4 second stun. Oh look, a marauder just saw the shiny lines pointing at you and wants some of the action. Now you're dead.

First, 2v1 is another story and perhaps instead of a Marauder hitting me when I'm stunned, he charges the Sorc just as he used his sprint and "boom" he's dead.

In the above situation I've already pointed out that if the Sorc decides to use his stun at that point, I would have to decide to use my CC breaker or not. I also have my Cloaking Screen available. If he immediately began to try to fight back, I would surely wait out his damage, as I have no problem taking his damage and still killing him. This would also be his only damage done to me at this time, and a lot of it is going to be absorbed by my shield.