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A Gap Closer for Operatives

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A Gap Closer for Operatives

SammuelSK's Avatar


SammuelSK
02.21.2012 , 07:20 PM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by wwkingms View Post
what do u want 100% uptime on ur target?


Aren't you a hybrid spec sorc?

Oh right.. THAT's balanced... Operatives not being forced to run, slowly, back up from the pit.. well.. that would just be gamebreaking.

Anyway, don't want to repeat myself but maybe it'll drive the point home, my sniper gets to do more damage then my Operative ever did at a longer range and not have to worry about being knocked back, rooted, with a much more effective defense mechanic and never have to deal with the games numerous positioning errors. Looking from the outside in, and having played the class before, I can say without a doubt they need serious love because they are laughable in their current state.. best suited for finishing off a kill someone else started.

MightyHalo's Avatar


MightyHalo
02.22.2012 , 12:20 PM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by SammuelSK View Post


Aren't you a hybrid spec sorc?

Oh right.. THAT's balanced... Operatives not being forced to run, slowly, back up from the pit.. well.. that would just be gamebreaking.

Anyway, don't want to repeat myself but maybe it'll drive the point home, my sniper gets to do more damage then my Operative ever did at a longer range and not have to worry about being knocked back, rooted, with a much more effective defense mechanic and never have to deal with the games numerous positioning errors. Looking from the outside in, and having played the class before, I can say without a doubt they need serious love because they are laughable in their current state.. best suited for finishing off a kill someone else started.
I've seen good ops/scoundrels take out 4 people. They don't need anything but another nerf. Don't allow ops/scoundrels back in combat for 8 seconds following a vanish.

Howbadisbad's Avatar


Howbadisbad
02.22.2012 , 02:21 PM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by MightyHalo View Post
I've seen good ops/scoundrels take out 4 people. They don't need anything but another nerf. Don't allow ops/scoundrels back in combat for 8 seconds following a vanish.
Taking out 4 bad players =/= class balance

Operatives do not neeed a nerf because they bring nothing to the team that another class can't provide. They need buffs, starting with the huge cooldowns/requirements on their bread and butter skills imo.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jibbie View Post
If one class can perform better than other classes in a greater number of rolls, than that class is not balanced.
You defended that Operatives can perform well, but if an Assassin can do the same things but better, than Operatives are not balanced. "Succeeding" is irrelevant.

SammuelSK's Avatar


SammuelSK
02.22.2012 , 02:44 PM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by MightyHalo View Post
I've seen good ops/scoundrels take out 4 people. They don't need anything but another nerf. Don't allow ops/scoundrels back in combat for 8 seconds following a vanish.
I've seen my buddy's jugg instantly drop three people in a hit.

I've seen a sorc do close to 1,000,000 damage.

I've seen snipers do 60-70 kills a match. Every match.

I've seen a sorc healer shrug off four people beating on him and not die.

I've seen a BH top damage and kills with just one key on their quickslot bar, just spamming the same attack repeatedly.

And the list goes on and on... why don't we just nerf them all. Without context its easy to say anyone is OP. In the context of THIS discusssion the fact still remains, properly played and verses equally skilled opponents, Operatives are nowhere near as effective as other damage dealing classes.

Choppaman's Avatar


Choppaman
02.22.2012 , 02:48 PM | #155
Yeah let's give 'em charge too. Oh and more stuns, how about a sprint as well? Of course more damage to go along with that.

Why don't we just give you guys a free class change to an assassin? How about that.

Cwild's Avatar


Cwild
02.22.2012 , 02:50 PM | #156
It would just be nice if we got an ability that made us immune to knockbacks for like 4-5 seconds. It would solve all issues IMHO.

30 second cooldown, or hell just tie it to evasion....seeing as it would make sense, (evading the knockback)

SirPayne's Avatar


SirPayne
02.22.2012 , 03:45 PM | #157
Operatives feels like an incomplete class, quickly hacked together before release with obvious design flaws.

I play mostly as medic but respec concealment from time to time, till i can't stand the overall clunky gameplay that class suffers from. It just feels like there is missing something. For example playing as concealment spec i have no basic melee attack, holding a knife in my hand and when all special attacks are on cooldown i have to get out my RIFLE in melee range and shoot someone in the face. That doesn't make any sense at all. A missing gap closer surely adds to the list among other silly things, like eviscerate not working on players. Or what's with the rediculous 10 seconds no healing restriction when we use our escape ability with a rather long 2 minutes cooldown? Do sorcs/sages get any drawbacks using any of their escape tools? It's the sum of all these little flaws that playing operative more of a meh experience.

Playing medic also feels like there is missing something, namely utility. In a huttball game i have absolutely nothing to offer compared to a sorc/sage. Why did they give all the utility to those classes and not spread it equaly between others? AOE knockback on 30 seconds cooldown, a sprint on 30 seconds cooldown, a bubble on shorter cooldown which also can be casts on others and lasts longer, a pull friendly players ability, a ranged stun, a ranged cc that does not require any setup. They just got it all.

It wouldn't be so bad if we would have a niche where we could shine, but sadly there is none.

It's time to make the class complete.

Alexdaphnis's Avatar


Alexdaphnis
02.23.2012 , 09:20 AM | #158
What amuse me is most of negative posts here comes from sorcs/mercs/sage/commando that wants badly their counter class to stay weak and feel pro forever without any real challenge

Antilogical's Avatar


Antilogical
02.23.2012 , 10:12 AM | #159
What do you have to say Mr. Georg Zoeller? HMMMMMM? Arn't you supposed to be taking care of these things?

Server: Helm of Graush
Coe - Level 50 Concealment Operative
Distort - Level 13 Darkness Assassin
Armor - Level 21 Bounty Hunter

oblongship's Avatar


oblongship
02.23.2012 , 10:22 AM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by Vamina View Post
First off, this is not a thread made to whine about the changes made to Operatives in pvp. Personally, I think a slightly lower damage hidden strike is a fair trade with the buff jarring strike was given to not fill the resolve bar. An issue I do feel needs addressed however is the lack of a gap closing power for Operatives, specifically concealment.

If you look at the other melee classes, they all have some sort of skill that allows them to get in a ranged dps' face more quickly (Force Charge, Jet Charge, Grapple, Force Speed, etc). Operatives have two talents that provide movement speed increases, but one requires us to use Debilitate on a target (our best stun), and the other requires us to burn out best defensive cooldown (Cloaking Screen). The other melee classes do not have similar drawbacks built into their gap closers, and only Jet Charge requires a talent.

Here is my suggestion:

1) Switch Meticulously Kept Blades and Culling in the Concealment talent tree.
2) Roll Acid Blade and Culling into one talent. It would still be a 3 point talent, and points invested beyond the first would only increase the damage dealt to poisoned targets (1%/2%/3%).
3) Create a new 31 point talent similar to Shadowstep used by rogues in that other game whose name cannot be spoken. The range would be equal to that of the other gap closers, and the operative would end up behind his or her target.

Now, before anyone says "Stealth is your gap closer, that talent would be overpowered!", I would like to point out that the other stealthy melee class not only has a gap closer in the form of a sprint, but also has an AoE knockback. I am suggesting Operatives sacrifice the utility of a knockback in order to have a skill that would bring them more into line with the other melee classes when outside of stealth.

Any thoughts are appreciated, and yes I can feel the flames at my back as I finish typing this. Cheers!
Um...You do realize your cover mechanic (not cover in place) works as a gap closer...you roll pretty fast to places.