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Another Tracer Missile Thread

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Another Tracer Missile Thread

Xdreadfather's Avatar


Xdreadfather
02.15.2012 , 01:07 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Kerraii View Post
If they have Tracer Missle then let them use it.
Sage has pebbles
Sorc has lightning
Sniper has grenade for whatever reason
Operative has Hidden Strike.

lets get past the op skill BS and just play
I suppose you don't complain to your landlord when your hot water doesn't work or when your toilet is leaking either? Lets just ignore the problems and enjoy everything else! The OP does't say that TM is game breaking, just annoyingly overpowered, as are all the other things you mentioned, and I agree that they should all be balanced in one way or another.

Arynai's Avatar


Arynai
02.15.2012 , 01:07 PM | #12
Yeah, looks like we got a little off track right off the bat. Gonna clear a few more things up right now.

Whether or not the thread is new or original is irrelevant. This forum is for discussing the game and it's positives and negatives. Meaning, I can post as many threads about class balance as I want. You being tired of seeing them isn't my problem. Moving on.

I'll also clear up that as a Marauder I have had no problems taking down Mercenaries in my time PvPing. I've beaten my fair share in Ilum and in Warzones, looks like I should have included that in my OP. That by no means disqualifies me from bringing them up in any way.

So off topic for a minute, Undying Rage is a bit much right now and I agree that something should probably be done about it. Not even going to get into Sorcerers/Sages because that's something I also feel strongly about and the amount of power and utility that they have, that's not what we're talking about here.
Darth Vethryn - Sith Marauder - <Aggresive Opposition> - Infinite Empire

Kentontudor's Avatar


Kentontudor
02.15.2012 , 01:14 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Arynai View Post
Yeah, looks like we got a little off track right off the bat. Gonna clear a few more things up right now.

Whether or not the thread is new or original is irrelevant. This forum is for discussing the game and it's positives and negatives. Meaning, I can post as many threads about class balance as I want. You being tired of seeing them isn't my problem. Moving on.

I'll also clear up that as a Marauder I have had no problems taking down Mercenaries in my time PvPing. I've beaten my fair share in Ilum and in Warzones, looks like I should have included that in my OP. That by no means disqualifies me from bringing them up in any way.

So off topic for a minute, Undying Rage is a bit much right now and I agree that something should probably be done about it. Not even going to get into Sorcerers/Sages because that's something I also feel strongly about and the amount of power and utility that they have, that's not what we're talking about here.

1st - I agree with the thread part. People who come in to bash thread titles and if they've seen them before are stupid. EVERYTHING discussed on the forums has been discussed before unless there's a new gamebreaking bug in the recent patch.


2nd - There's NO WAY that Tracer Missile is overpowered. People are angry because at lower levels it can face-roll in PvP. At 50, it does not do anymore damage than any other classes' main abilities. People are mad because it's the only ability that some "not-so-skilled" Arsenal Mercenaries use. And if I were you, I would be happy that it's the only ability they use because they aren't doing as much damage as they should be.

I like to see myself as a skilled Arsenal Merc, and I wouldn't be against lets say... after 5 stacks of Tracer Missile on the same target, the damage from Tracer Missile itself is tremendously reduced (only in PvP, I'm not sure how this would work in PvE).
TonyPerkis - 55 Arsenal Mercenary

vindianajones's Avatar


vindianajones
02.15.2012 , 01:16 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Baalazar View Post
^ this guy pretty much sums it up. If one on one you are losing to mercs there is no hope for you.
Where are you guys getting the impression that he's losing to them? Just assumed it, I guess? He never said that. He was describing the problem with the design of the talent tree around the use of one skill, a skill that is supposed to build other ones but simply does too much damage on its own and can achieve success on its own merits. He is correct. These points can be applied to any other class, ranged or melee. They aren't Marauder specific. Mauraders may have the least problem with them, but other classes still have to suffer.

That entire talent tree and the skills it buffs needs to be rethought and reworked from scratch. You can't just put a cooldown on TM at this point. It would gimp the class. They have to go back to the drawing board. I play a Guardian and I would love for them to do the same with the Focus tree. It's good, but it's just so stupid. Everything revolves around building up the Force Sweep crit, then rinse and repeat. It's terrible design and it's not much fun. So I don't play Focus anymore, but a ton of people do, just like a ton of people play Arsenal because it's so damn easy to be good with.

I see people on the forums all of the time defending the Mercenary class in these threads, and a lot of them will say "Well, Pyro does better damage anyway and you don't have to stand there and turret". OK. I think I believe you, so why don't I see a bunch of Pyro Mercs running around? In fact the only Pyro specs I ever fight are PT's. Why is this? Could it be because it really doesn't do all that much more damage? Or could it also be that maybe it has a bit more potential, but Arsenal is so stupidly easy to melt people with, that's what everyone chooses?

This is not a problem of "Oh you can just interrupt them" or "We have to use other skills, too". That isn't the issue. The problem is the design. It's boring and stupid to give poor players the ability to obliterate people effortlessly. So, what? You cast tracer missile a bunch of times and your target has a huge chunk of health gone. Then you use your Railshot periodically in there and maybe a Full-Auto? 3 skills and zoom, right to the top of the kills/damage charts. If it took some effort or skill to achieve this as it does with Marauders, Pyro specs, pretty much any other DPS class in the game, it wouldn't bother people so much.

It is too dumbed down and too easy to reach lofty kill/damage numbers with this particular class and spec. There's your problem. It may not do too much damage compared to say, a Marauder in your face, but it's just so damn mindless. What they need to do is re-work that tree so that the damage stays roughly the same over time, but make the class use more than one skill 80% of the time, for gods' sake.

I'm going to clarify one more time before someone flames me for this. I don't think the Arsenal tree's overall damage needs a nerf. They're a DPS class with very little CC and should be able to do significant damage, but for the love of everything holy, make it a little bit harder to accomplish. A monkey shouldn't be able to achieve 500k+ damage every warzone.

Baalazar's Avatar


Baalazar
02.15.2012 , 01:19 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by vindianajones View Post
Where are you guys getting the impression that he's losing to them? Just assumed it, I guess? He never said that. He was describing the problem with the design of the talent tree around the use of one skill, a skill that is supposed to build other ones but simply does too much damage on its own and can achieve success on its own merits. He is correct. These points can be applied to any other class, ranged or melee. They aren't Marauder specific. Mauraders may have the least problem with them, but other classes still have to suffer.

That entire talent tree and the skills it buffs needs to be rethought and reworked from scratch. You can't just put a cooldown on TM at this point. It would gimp the class. They have to go back to the drawing board. I play a Guardian and I would love for them to do the same with the Focus tree. It's good, but it's just so stupid. Everything revolves around building up the Force Sweep crit, then rinse and repeat. It's terrible design and it's not much fun. So I don't play Focus anymore, but a ton of people do, just like a ton of people play Arsenal because it's so damn easy to be good with.

I see people on the forums all of the time defending the Mercenary class in these threads, and a lot of them will say "Well, Pyro does better damage anyway and you don't have to stand there and turret". OK. I think I believe you, so why don't I see a bunch of Pyro Mercs running around? In fact the only Pyro specs I ever fight are PT's. Why is this? Could it be because it really doesn't do all that much more damage? Or could it also be that maybe it has a bit more potential, but Arsenal is so stupidly easy to melt people with, that's what everyone chooses?

This is not a problem of "Oh you can just interrupt them" or "We have to use other skills, too". That isn't the issue. The problem is the design. It's boring and stupid to give poor players the ability to obliterate people effortlessly. So, what? You cast tracer missile a bunch of times and your target has a huge chunk of health gone. Then you use your Railshot periodically in there and maybe a Full-Auto? 3 skills and zoom, right to the top of the kills/damage charts. If it took some effort or skill to achieve this as it does with Marauders, Pyro specs, pretty much any other DPS class in the game, it wouldn't bother people so much.

It is too dumbed down and too easy to reach lofty kill/damage numbers with this particular class and spec. There's your problem. It may not do too much damage compared to say, a Marauder in your face, but it's just so damn mindless. What they need to do is re-work that tree so that the damage stays roughly the same over time, but make the class use more than one skill 80% of the time, for gods' sake.

I'm going to clarify one more time before someone flames me for this. I don't think the Arsenal tree's overall damage needs a nerf. They're a DPS class with very little CC and should be able to do significant damage, but for the love of everything holy, make it a little bit harder to accomplish. A monkey shouldn't be able to achieve 500k+ damage every warzone.
If you leave a sniper alone he can pretty much 3-4 shot you. Why arent' people complaing about snipers? All i ever hear about in pvp is some class is op. It makes me generally think people don't know what focusing, LOS and interrupts mean.

BloodsurgeX's Avatar


BloodsurgeX
02.15.2012 , 01:22 PM | #16
My biggest issue with Tracer Missile is that Mercs don't get it at level 10 when they pick their AC.

I made my BH and was thinking "Only 10 levels and I can queue up a WZ and shoot me some tracers missiles". But NO! I have to do 10 more levels just to talent into it?!?!?

SCREW YOU BW IF I CAN'T SPAM TRACER AT LEVEL 10 YOUR GAME IS BROKEN!!!

/cancelled

vindianajones's Avatar


vindianajones
02.15.2012 , 01:23 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Baalazar View Post
If you leave a sniper alone he can pretty much 3-4 shot you. Why arent' people complaing about snipers? All i ever hear about in pvp is some class is op. It makes me generally think people don't know what focusing, LOS and interrupts mean.
Did you even read my post? I never said it was overpowered. I said it was too easy to do incredibly well with because it's a poorly designed system.

Qilz's Avatar


Qilz
02.15.2012 , 01:24 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Kentontudor View Post
1st - I agree with the thread part. People who come in to bash thread titles and if they've seen them before are stupid. EVERYTHING discussed on the forums has been discussed before unless there's a new gamebreaking bug in the recent patch..
Then discuss it in one of the other 50 threads on the issue. This is nothing more than another cry for attention by someone who can't play their class.

Arynai's Avatar


Arynai
02.15.2012 , 01:24 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Kentontudor View Post
1st - I agree with the thread part. People who come in to bash thread titles and if they've seen them before are stupid. EVERYTHING discussed on the forums has been discussed before unless there's a new gamebreaking bug in the recent patch.


2nd - There's NO WAY that Tracer Missile is overpowered. People are angry because at lower levels it can face-roll in PvP. At 50, it does not do anymore damage than any other classes' main abilities. People are mad because it's the only ability that some "not-so-skilled" Arsenal Mercenaries use. And if I were you, I would be happy that it's the only ability they use because they aren't doing as much damage as they should be.

I like to see myself as a skilled Arsenal Merc, and I wouldn't be against lets say... after 5 stacks of Tracer Missile on the same target, the damage from Tracer Missile itself is tremendously reduced (only in PvP, I'm not sure how this would work in PvE).
I can agree partially with that. It's difficult for me to talk in detail about your class since I've never played it, I only have my own experiences with my own to go on.

At 50 I definitely agree the damage from Tracer Missile is pretty balanced but that the fact that it can be used over and over again imbalances it.

Just to note, I'm not taking into account fresh 50s who have a less than ideal health pool when I'm talking about this because you can be wrecked by anything.

Even if you use your maximum damage rotation in PvP which includes other abilities besides Tracer Missile I still feel that it's a bit too easy to use for the damage that it puts out (not saying it's too much but it's a good amount to be sure). I'd like to see it's damage boosted and a cooldown put on it.

I feel that this would be a good compromise because in it's current state it's way too easy to put massive amounts of damage out with minimal effort even though you aren't getting maximum DPS, it does a ton of damage on it's own.
Darth Vethryn - Sith Marauder - <Aggresive Opposition> - Infinite Empire

Baalazar's Avatar


Baalazar
02.15.2012 , 01:26 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by vindianajones View Post
Did you even read my post? I never said it was overpowered. I said it was too easy to do incredibly well with because it's a poorly designed system.
I agree that is poorly made mechanics, but nerfing one ability isn't going to fix it. Bioware would need to remake the whole arsenal tree.