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Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.

bahugboto's Avatar


bahugboto
02.15.2012 , 12:33 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by kazaku View Post
its completely true that the assassin tank spec is now so riduclous and it needs attention to be put into it. But i feel the nerfs should stop.

lets put everything else into fair ground with the sin tanks rather than nerfing some class to the ground everytime BW fails to make class balance.

but for those who dont know, heres the new sin tank for ya.

1) Survivablity up the ***. A Better tank than guardian by far IN LIGHT ARMOR. no ****s were given that day at BW.

2) dps that matches its deception tree with the survivablity of a tank. It has enough dps to be considered a damager dealer... but tanks better than a guardian. Huh?

and finally... the icing on the cake of all broken classes.

3) Access to some of the most devasting CC's in the game, taken straight out the sorc handbook.

force speed. yup.
aoe knockback. yup.
force stun. yup.
U name the CC and the shadow probably has it, due to it being the blood brother of the currently most OP(that means over powered and overpopulated) class in the game...

The sith inquistor (sorc)

So basically if u choose sith inquistor/consular at the character creation selection screen. You are now guaranteed the ability to **** all in pvp. skill not included.

EDIT: to all the people who say the balance is light armor. Make the character yourself and try it out. I cant remember the last time a guy in cloth and fabric took less damage than a fully geared tank..... and then turned around and DID more dmg too. Light armor is no restriction. they dont die any quicker. if ur a shadow in light armor, than your a tank who wont die for his life. If your a sorc in light armor, than u have a bubble thats always ready to go.

For light armor... id say they have the best survivability in the game thanks to all the utility they've been given. I mean you dont see scoundrels/operatives outlasting sorcs in pvp do you?

Best post of the thread, to those asses scared of nerf, and actually thinks it's all about their skills but never the utility of their abilities, and actually think Guardians are naturally better tanks because of their heavy armor or their rather mediocre and short duration ward and shields(50% damage mitigation at best) is generalizing way off base the truth.

My suggestion is still to nerf ***/Sin tanking ability in line to their armor class as these folks have so clamored for, and have a thorough revamp of the Guardian tanking abilities but not necessarily the DPS, there's already a focus build for that. Just make the Guardian harder to kill should they chooses to spec as tanks and make the entire class more survivable overall period, make it more pvp specific, reduction in cooldown of both the shielding and ward skills, and making enure to let's say 20% but make it critable as well + only reduction of the original max based hp it increases when expired but never reducing your current HP that have gone below the original max Hp level.

Remember that Guardian cannot afford to play like a wuss, they can't run, they have mediocre CCs, freezing is practically worthless against ranges who can slow you down from afar, so you ended up as a hulking sloth that could not DPS and could not tank well and could not run well either in isolated situations, while in group fights you ended up having to use your guadian abilities like Force leap, and intercede to make a quick cowardly getaway, taking you out of the fight quickly or suicide charge into a large group of enemies just so you could let out a last worthless fart of freezing force, aoe taunts, or roars before dying.

These changes can ensure the Guardian plenty more reasons to go tank and equip high endurance high defense gear in PVP (even then it might not be enough), instead of going the same old cookie cutter, highly predictable focus build, which is also ultimately weak against a good player who knows how to counter the focus strat easily.

Blades_of_Afro's Avatar


Blades_of_Afro
02.15.2012 , 01:10 PM | #32
I am shocked by how people act because they lose to another class. When u get a video of a tank and dps assassin doing the same amount of damage in the same amount of time come back and cry. I just can't take u for real. Good luck finding that video.

Mohawksinspace's Avatar


Mohawksinspace
02.15.2012 , 01:48 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by bahugboto View Post
They are overpowered in PVP, as well as being the best tank class in PVP(absurd) with their avoidance, and highest consistent damage dealers, they can stealth and have the best CCs. Shadows/*** are unbeatable in 1 on 1 duels as well, they can out tank a fully speced tanking guardian and still out dps them by a factor of 2 in PVP. This is a universal complain among most pvp veterans. It's about time that the class system gets a huge re-balancing. Guardians/Jugs are underpowered and not filling the role they are supposed to - as tanks, and anything other than pure focus/rage build is useless in PVP atm, shadow/*** are disgustingly overpowered and need a big nerf, it is inevitable, the sooner it comes the better, this imbalance have gone on for far too long.
Somehow the assassin/shadows you play are both tankasins and deception at the same time. I wish I had 82 skill points to spend.
Ma'iq - Sith Assassin
Darkness - Gardens of Talla
CC Tips:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=283501

Nijraw's Avatar


Nijraw
02.15.2012 , 02:57 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Parthis View Post
The defensive cooldowns deserve a 3 min CD; Juggernauts have the most and the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game. 3 mins is fine, lower would be OP in both PvP and PvE.

Having a 25% heal is OP especially when combined with a HP increase and the option of chain-potting. Other tank heals are incremental, 10% at most or spread over a HoT/Cast.

Allowing Juggernauts to shield Force and Tech attacks has a serve impact on PvE, and not only that it's a fundamental change to core shielding mechanics for all classes. On the flipside; Shadows/Tankasins cannot shield them either, have similar DR against Force/Tech. Juggernauts are no worse off than Assassins in this regard, so the suggestion makes absolutely no sense. At all. Secondly tanks rarely use Shields in PvP; most Darkness assassin run with a focus equiped as shields do very little.

Juggernaut survival is fine. Juggernaut mobility is fine. Juggernaut board control is powerful. Juggernaut damage is questionable.
But my Trooper Tank is way better, I have a Leap & Pull ontop of a heal with 30 yard attacks

You're making an awful lot of suggestions without actually understanding how any of these core mechanics work or the impact on the wider game.

Finally; PvP is a team game. If you're ramboing trying to max out medals and ignoring the strengths of your class than more fool you. Juggernauts are formidable PvE tanks and exceptional PvP play makers... a little damage buff is fair, god like survival through your proposed changes less so.
I agree but what people seem to forget, thanks to WoW, is that a class that is strong alone is even better in a Team setting, knowing this Troopers & Shadows are way better in a PvP setting in just about every case
Posts like this reaffirm my belief that Warriors/Knights are this game's mage... moan moan moan.
Above ^

Wrathoran's Avatar


Wrathoran
02.15.2012 , 03:32 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by bahugboto View Post
Don't troll when you don't know what the hell you are talking about, and don't *assume. I have two chars one geared in BM, the other in Champion.Centurion working towards BM, and thousands of pvp experience and consistently clocking 9-12 medals(11-14 medals before the frozenshock exploit was fixed) even as a gimped Guardian should i choose to focus on medal hunting, and it's not just me who understood this severe imbalance between classes, it's almost every other top pvp'ers i know acknowledged this, so let's open up some serious discussion here instead of blatant trolling, and assumptions.
funny how the people who complain and has no idea what they talk about always have plenty 50 , are almost maxed out in pvp and are farming medals no problem but their class is weak, i still dont understand after 7 years of forum reading.

nobody never suck , the other is just always way stronger

bahugboto's Avatar


bahugboto
02.15.2012 , 06:44 PM | #36
Oh the assassin/shadow nerf is coming but the question is when, how long is it before Bioware understand the current mechanics of PVP is completely off balanced, i don't see how they could give the melee classes a buff large enough to offset the current imbalances in PVP without affecting overall PVE as well, so the solution is to upgrade a Guardians tanking ability as i have put it, and nerf the preposterous shadow tanking ability substantially.

Not only are melee characters kitable in PVP, I.e at certain times in combat, you can keep them out of the game by kiting and hitting them back from a 5-10 meter range as a sorc class with certain offensive abilities while refreshing your defenses, so not only are melee gimped in range, they are completely screwed in the tanking and dps department if you take into the account having a shadow that can avoid getting dps from kiting alone + able to tank better overall + not mentioning having better CCs, sprints, stealth, something is clearly seriously flawed with this picture.

Urukkhan's Avatar


Urukkhan
02.15.2012 , 07:19 PM | #37
Damn, I really starting to hate freaking PVP whiners, they never shut up and harm what they do to PVE is tremendous, OPS are already nerfed so badly that there is no point at all to play it, sorcerers and mercs heal and DPS better, guys you are ruin the game, plain and simple. If PVP and PVE were separated, what is reasonable, I didn't give a **** at all, I prefer other PVP activities in FPS games, mmorpg PVP is quite boring for me, there is always be a balancing issues, and in FPS your skill is more important, If you suck, you suck, it L2P issue. Sad but in mmorpg bad players always blame game balance than their poor skills.
For example Jugs/Guardians have some issues with treat in tanking stance and survivability in DPS stance, but this is doesn't mean that all other classes must be put down to their point, this is mean that weak classes need some boost in their abilities.
"This is a war universe. War all the time. That is its nature. There may be other universes based on all sorts of other principles, but ours seems to be based on war and games."

Fairell's Avatar


Fairell
02.15.2012 , 07:27 PM | #38
you guys clearly have no clue what ur talking about...

jugg is vastly superior pvp tank. no sin will live where jugg can still hold ground due to his incredible defensive cds.

ill take push over pull any day

40% damage reduction..
30% hp
same + 50% defense as a sin, but with 25% dmg reduction against force/tech
AOE incap
throw in an armor adrenal and this peace of junk is immortal long enough for every mfker in the universe to respawn and be back.

as a jugg, you can concentrate on the fight, as a sin you watch ur procs and reapply KW/DC (i would kill the guys who designed this crap)

whats with the sin?

5 secons resist against force/tech
50% defense
10% heal
tl;dr wait 5 seconds and rip him apart.

thats all. dont start me on the knockback, for shadows, force wave is blatantly brocken and absolutely inferior to the sin counterpart.

both have a stun, sins is ranged
Fairell - Infiltration Shadow - Darth Traya
Xar'fai Legacy

bahugboto's Avatar


bahugboto
02.15.2012 , 08:17 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Fairell View Post
you guys clearly have no clue what ur talking about...

jugg is vastly superior pvp tank. no sin will live where jugg can still hold ground due to his incredible defensive cds.

ill take push over pull any day

40% damage reduction..
30% hp
same + 50% defense as a sin, but with 25% dmg reduction against force/tech
AOE incap
throw in an armor adrenal and this peace of junk is immortal long enough for every mfker in the universe to respawn and be back.

as a jugg, you can concentrate on the fight, as a sin you watch ur procs and reapply KW/DC (i would kill the guys who designed this crap)

whats with the sin?

5 secons resist against force/tech
50% defense
10% heal
tl;dr wait 5 seconds and rip him apart.

thats all. dont start me on the knockback, for shadows, force wave is blatantly brocken and absolutely inferior to the sin counterpart.

both have a stun, sins is ranged
-Nevermind just noticed you are another sin, thx for the bump. Here's a hint for you sin bubbles are constant, a Jug damage mitigation last for 10-14 secs depending on spec or gear, and all a sin have to do during this period is to tank or kite and dps, and the Jug is finish, enure is not a permanent heal, 40% damage mitigation is nothing compared to the constant mitigation a sin tanker can proc and the dps and range attacks they can dish out, along with superior CCs, sprint and stealth thrown in, a Sin have to be nerfed i do not even support a pure buff on the weaker chars especially melee, a Sin have to be nerfed to be in line with the rest of the other classes period.

Tiresias's Avatar


Tiresias
02.15.2012 , 08:28 PM | #40
Shadows/Assassins overpowered?

What fresh hell is this, now?

The only way we could possibly sink lower is for someone to call for a nerf to Guardians/Juggernauts.