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Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.

Nijraw's Avatar


Nijraw
02.15.2012 , 02:00 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by bahugboto View Post
second best consistent Dps, Best and easily executable nukes(hard to miss), best tanks and on top of that, being able to stealth, i think it's overpowered, and yes Guardians are severely underpowered and about the most useless and one dimensional class in Pvp.
They get resisted so it makes up for misses.

Nijraw's Avatar


Nijraw
02.15.2012 , 02:04 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Reveillere View Post
Atleast be honest and say Tank shadows/assassins, infiltration/deception on the other hand could use a big buff ^.-

The tank tree does better damage than the dps tree so obviously something isn't right lul
Single target, No
Aoe, Yes

People need to understand when they see 500k+ damage done in a WZ that is all AOE, remove all AOE from a WZ and it will be a different story, don't let the number fool you like it does 90% of all the noobs, I'm not calling you a noob so please don't take it the wrong way.

bahugboto's Avatar


bahugboto
02.15.2012 , 04:14 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Nijraw View Post
I been screaming Buff JKG/SWJ for a long time now, they are lacking bad.
As far as nerfing Shadow/Assassins they are fine IMO they just need to buff Knights up to the level of Shadows & Troopers as far as tanking goes.

I will tell you what the problem is with JKG/SWJ tanks, its that they have NO personal healing, I have a 50 Trooper tank and a 41 Shadow tank and the self healing is what makes us, I think Bioware thought because they wear heavy armor and can leap and all the good stuff that they would be fine but they are not, they are only fine with a healer baby sitting them, but the same goes for the Shadow & Trooper.

A simple buff/fix would be to have Enure not lose the health gained after the effect is gone though the Inner Peace talent in the tanking tree but also increase the cooldown for taking that talent to 2 mins so it matches the Troopers Adernaline Rush cooldown of 2 mins via tanking tree.
Some good points you added here, if they are going to change enure into permanent heal, maybe make it heal for less like 25% of max health and make it so that you can earn medals from healing with enure but make it so that only your max health is normalized after the enure ends but not minimum health...that way you will see Guardians able to charge into battle with enure to utilize the extra hp, or simply heal themselves in the midst of battle but imo, guardian abilities require some major revamping still, because a hybrid guardian can tank as well and dps better than a pure tank guardian in PVP, wtih shields basically pointless atm.

They could also allow a guardian to be able to shield attacks from force powers as well, not just physical attacks through some ability modified in the tanking tree.

I like the suggestion of lowering the guardian ability to proc shields and wards to 2 min from 3, that will give the tank or hybrid spec a real survivability purpose.

While a focus build Guardian can do reasonably well in group pvp, they are so one dimensional and predictable that they are pretty much squishy food to anyone who knows how to deal with them, but that's still the only viable option for Guardians gimped as they are in PVP.

A major upgrade to the survivability of a guardian will give a choice for players who want to equip themselves with end game tank items or dps items. A tank Guardian who have no burst damage so to speak of, should be offsetted by them being the hardest class to take down of all. Since they really can't kill anyone and their only useful existence is guarding, taunting, annoying opposing healers with CCs and mosquito bites, and kill stealing, they should also be a pain in the *** to take down by any one character to make up for this. Their tanking ability should be above that of a power-tech for their gimpiness in dps and Aoe.

These are some good and realistic suggestions that the developers should take note of.

Shardie's Avatar


Shardie
02.15.2012 , 04:39 AM | #14
Haha, I'm so happy that the Shadow got its very first nerf post. Deservedly or not.
The Caaru Legacy
Vennah - lvl 60 Shadow
Vassar - lvl 60 Gunslinger

Midichlorien's Avatar


Midichlorien
02.15.2012 , 04:58 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Shardie View Post
Haha, I'm so happy that the Shadow got its very first nerf post. Deservedly or not.
hehe I know what you mean. I do my daily PvP quests with my 50 juggernaut, that's all and I am a bit sick of this class with very cool moves, but feeling unfinished in skilltree and skillsystem.

My lvl 35 Sith Sorcerer is rising, because I want to leave my whiny juggernaut board, I so badly want to belong to the "nerf-post-crew" :-)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion
The Force shall free me.

ScottHK's Avatar


ScottHK
02.15.2012 , 05:58 AM | #16
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Vaber : Sith Inquisitor : Sorceror : Trask Ulgo
Zeento : Smuggler : Scoundrel : Trask Ulgo

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Parthis's Avatar


Parthis
02.15.2012 , 06:02 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by bahugboto View Post
Some good points you added here, if they are going to change enure into permanent heal, maybe make it heal for less like 25% of max health and make it so that you can earn medals from healing with enure but make it so that only your max health is normalized after the enure ends but not minimum health...that way you will see Guardians able to charge into battle with enure to utilize the extra hp, or simply heal themselves in the midst of battle but imo, guardian abilities require some major revamping still, because a hybrid guardian can tank as well and dps better than a pure tank guardian in PVP, wtih shields basically pointless atm.

They could also allow a guardian to be able to shield attacks from force powers as well, not just physical attacks through some ability modified in the tanking tree.

I like the suggestion of lowering the guardian ability to proc shields and wards to 2 min from 3, that will give the tank or hybrid spec a real survivability purpose.

While a focus build Guardian can do reasonably well in group pvp, they are so one dimensional and predictable that they are pretty much squishy food to anyone who knows how to deal with them, but that's still the only viable option for Guardians gimped as they are in PVP.

A major upgrade to the survivability of a guardian will give a choice for players who want to equip themselves with end game tank items or dps items. A tank Guardian who have no burst damage so to speak of, should be offsetted by them being the hardest class to take down of all. Since they really can't kill anyone and their only useful existence is guarding, taunting, annoying opposing healers with CCs and mosquito bites, and kill stealing, they should also be a pain in the *** to take down by any one character to make up for this. Their tanking ability should be above that of a power-tech for their gimpiness in dps and Aoe.

These are some good and realistic suggestions that the developers should take note of.
The defensive cooldowns deserve a 3 min CD; Juggernauts have the most and the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game. 3 mins is fine, lower would be OP in both PvP and PvE.

Having a 25% heal is OP especially when combined with a HP increase and the option of chain-potting. Other tank heals are incremental, 10% at most or spread over a HoT/Cast.

Allowing Juggernauts to shield Force and Tech attacks has a serve impact on PvE, and not only that it's a fundamental change to core shielding mechanics for all classes. On the flipside; Shadows/Tankasins cannot shield them either, have similar DR against Force/Tech. Juggernauts are no worse off than Assassins in this regard, so the suggestion makes absolutely no sense. At all. Secondly tanks rarely use Shields in PvP; most Darkness assassin run with a focus equiped as shields do very little.

Juggernaut survival is fine. Juggernaut mobility is fine. Juggernaut board control is powerful. Juggernaut damage is questionable.

You're making an awful lot of suggestions without actually understanding how any of these core mechanics work or the impact on the wider game.

Finally; PvP is a team game. If you're ramboing trying to max out medals and ignoring the strengths of your class than more fool you. Juggernauts are formidable PvE tanks and exceptional PvP play makers... a little damage buff is fair, god like survival through your proposed changes less so.

Posts like this reaffirm my belief that Warriors/Knights are this game's mage... moan moan moan.

Disappointed.

bahugboto's Avatar


bahugboto
02.15.2012 , 07:36 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Parthis View Post
The defensive cooldowns deserve a 3 min CD; Juggernauts have the most and the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game. 3 mins is fine, lower would be OP in both PvP and PvE.

Having a 25% heal is OP especially when combined with a HP increase and the option of chain-potting. Other tank heals are incremental, 10% at most or spread over a HoT/Cast.

Allowing Juggernauts to shield Force and Tech attacks has a serve impact on PvE, and not only that it's a fundamental change to core shielding mechanics for all classes. On the flipside; Shadows/Tankasins cannot shield them either, have similar DR against Force/Tech. Juggernauts are no worse off than Assassins in this regard, so the suggestion makes absolutely no sense. At all. Secondly tanks rarely use Shields in PvP; most Darkness assassin run with a focus equiped as shields do very little.

Juggernaut survival is fine. Juggernaut mobility is fine. Juggernaut board control is powerful. Juggernaut damage is questionable.

You're making an awful lot of suggestions without actually understanding how any of these core mechanics work or the impact on the wider game.

Finally; PvP is a team game. If you're ramboing trying to max out medals and ignoring the strengths of your class than more fool you. Juggernauts are formidable PvE tanks and exceptional PvP play makers... a little damage buff is fair, god like survival through your proposed changes less so.

Posts like this reaffirm my belief that Warriors/Knights are this game's mage... moan moan moan.
This is not moaning most top Guardian pvp'ers including Nian who is now playing an assassin has confirmed that Jugs and Guardians are underpowered. Jugs are INFERIOR tanker to Powertech and Shadow tanks with inferior DPS, and even if spec to dps(though good in warzones) they are inferior in DPS to a marauder or a sin overall, especially inferior when the opponent you go up against know what they are doing to avoid your one trick pony smash.

So my proposal is to upgrade the tanking spec so the Jugs can actually TANK, because with Vigilance spec does pretty ho hum damage, in rage or focus spec, they do some burst damage that are good in group PVP but easily defeatable at highly skilled pvp matches, and tanks are worthless apart from PVE where you can pull agro on a mob.

You have obviously no idea what you are talking about when it comes to playing a guardian, what is proposed here makes sense, because a tank guardian have to be an absolute beast at tanking since it's an absolute wuss at DPS, cutting enure down from 30% to 25% but making the heal permanent based on max HP is one idea to make a Tank Guardian tankable and making endurance + defense gears + Shields more feasible for those who choose the tanking spec. Also fulfilling it's support role more ably without being squishy.

You obviously have never played a guardian or jug and is speaking outta your ***, from the way you talk you have no idea what you are saying and have never played a Guardian/Jug in end game pvp before, please go take your Assassin raging somewhere else, i am sorry but Assassin still should be staring down the nerf bat along with a powertech, either that or some serious class re-balancing issues have to be looked at and have to be done ASAP.

SwordofSodan's Avatar


SwordofSodan
02.15.2012 , 08:23 AM | #19
Plz nerf all the kids that play this game.

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
02.15.2012 , 09:23 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Reveillere View Post
Atleast be honest and say Tank shadows/assassins, infiltration/deception on the other hand could use a big buff ^.-

The tank tree does better damage than the dps tree so obviously something isn't right lul
If you are playing assassin and able to damage better as a Darkness spec vs a madness or deception spec; you must not be very good at the dps trees.

At any rate, I do find deception on the weak end; but that is all opinion; just like I find operatives, marauders and juggernuts on the weak end as well. That has nothing to do with tank assassins though. Nor does what someone might be able to do with a hybrid build.