The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

Actually I do also play a sniper, powertech and just started a sentinel, and sorcs go down faster then any other class because they have less hp lower armor and their only shield stops about 3.5k max.

For example, snipers get a AOE 20% damage reduction for any team members in it for 15 seconds? As well as a shield, as well as evasion, as well as a grenade that reduces the enemys accuracy by 45% for 6 seconds and blocks them going into cover aswell as more armor. All that vs a 3.5k max shield.

Your talking about an ability that isn't part of the "OP HYBRID" build that everyone is using, the 0/13/28 build. The base shield doesn't have an aoe stun when broken, its a tier 4 ability in the derp tree which costs 2 points, so unless you want to give up far better abilities from the madness tree nobody will have it.

And people not spreading out is more ridiculous, have you seen the damage death from above does? Say hello to your entire team losing half their health from being clumped together.

This thread is clearly about the 20/21 build, that I personally use on my sorc.

Unless you're just mindlessly going for top damage, 20/21 is way better than 13/28. You don't get far better abilities from madness, just some more dot damage in exchange for less burst and control. Backlash is probably the best talent in the entire game, and if you're giving that up to use a pve dps build in pvp... you're making a terrible decision

Second, I realize AoE in this game is ridiculously strong, that doesn't change the fact that it's completely impossible for melee classes in particular to avoid clumping up.




And sorcs don't have less HP by default, we've got the same amount of HP as any other class if we're using the same mods. If you choose to go all willpower mods over stamina mods then of course you're going to have less health, just like you would on any other class.

Not to mention, we've already gone over the calculations in here, it takes more effective damage to kill a sorcerer than pretty much any other class unless you do some 90% of your damage with kinetic/energy/weapon/ranged.

Are you talking at 50 ?

At 50 with my gunslinger bm/champion their bubble makes them take more gcd's to kill than a merc/pyrotech (heavy armor), because even if they take more damage from my skills they have easiers way to LoS me or their bubble make up for it (it's around 4k when geared, not 3,5k, and that on a single fight means 20k health instead the usual 16k). The AOE 20% is 3mins cd and requires you to stay on cover, not a bubble free, and the smoke grenade is 1min cd against 1 enemy. You can't be serious comparing that utility to just 1 skill of the sorc, which also when specced right aoe blind.

The problem isn't the skill, it's all the CC the class can acquire easilly via hybrid. Stop de-railing the thread.

How does the 20/21 even compare to the 13/28, 30% surge from the 28 points on death field and dots is greater then anything you gain from going 20 points into lightning.

The 3 second aoe mez from the bubble giving people resolve uncontrollably is laughable.

And I stand by my point that a sorc is easier to kill then any other class in the open, you can use all the numbers you want, and ignore all the other classes defensive abilities when coming up with these numbers, but until a combat log comes out so people can actually test then GG.

Only one of these CC abilities allows you to do damage while using it. The entire hybrid build is designed to just survive and run away. Basically all those skills added up and steath has more effect.

And if you can kill a merc easier then a sorc there is something wrong with the mercs you've been killing. Who cares how long a cooldown is? You only need to use it once per fight and chances are by the time you actually need to use it again it will be back up. It's not like you get focus fired every 20 seconds in a WZ.

For one, resolve is a joke, people die way too fast for it to really matter.

and with a 20/21 build you gain an extra 10 seconds off force speed, a 3 second mezz on a 20 seconds cooldown on yourself, or less if you're using it on everyone around you, and you can get either barrage or bindings, giving you either a whole lot more burst or a whole lot more control that doesn't effect resolve.

All you lose from this is 30% crit multiplier on dots & field, 15% damage on affliction, and 2 seconds on crushing darkness.

With 20/21 you're so much more helpful to your team it's ridiculous. It makes scoring in huttball incredibly easy, it makes kiting brainless, and you've got even more burst than you do in 13/28 assuming you took bindings.

13/28 is a pve build, and for warzone heroes that just go for top dps.



Secondly, if you choose to stick your head in the sand despite all the numbers we've posted how do you expect anyone to take you seriously? If we don't need to worry about this game's mechanics and we can argue based on fictitious numbers then sorcerers crit for 20,000 damage and need nerfed asap.

And the calculations do take other defensive cooldowns into account. It takes more damage to kill a double bubbled sorcerer than it does to kill a dps powertech using his bubble.

As others have mentioned already those abilities have extensive cooldowns. A Sniper/Gunslinger or another class with good defensive cooldowns will have them up 1/5 fights at best. Assuming a Sorcerer magically lost all of his CC and escape abilities the bubble puts him on par with higher armor classes and with the advantage of not being demolished by high internal/elemental damage. Another advantage of bubble is that the lower the total damage taken in 20s is the more effective it is in comparison to better armor.

If you actually compare a heavy armor wearer to a sorcerer with both of them attempting to keep the enemy at bay when possible the Sorcerer will pull ahead simply because a much larger percentage of all of the damage that their target inflicts will be mitigated by bubble. The math I used was for a worst-case scenario where the Sorcerer gets beat on for an extended period of time and doesn't get a second bubble off. If I were to account for the the Sorcerer kiting the enemy the heavy armor wearer would pale in comparison.

You forgot to add the 5/2s root to the knockback.

that's bindings. Some 13/28 builds take it, some take barrage instead.