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The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

savionen's Avatar


savionen
02.16.2012 , 05:00 PM | #691
Quote: Originally Posted by syntxerr View Post
I kind of agree on the latter if that's how it behaves.

Regarding those 20 seconds... yes, it might be of advantage over medium armor classes but you need to consider that a) those medium armor classes might have their own utility abilities or even survival cooldowns, which Sorcs/Sages just don't have and b) that without bubble, no matter what I do, I hardly survive 20 seconds, not even 10 and some DPS classes drop me in about 3 or 4.
Sorc/Sages don't need much else when they have the most CC in the game, Force Run, and can heal, ontop of Bubble.

Bubble isn't invincibility-mode, it's just that Light Armor + Bubble is superior to Medium Armor or Heavy Armor, especially since armor doesn't mitigate internal/elemental damage, but a Bubble still blocks it.

Eradicatelol's Avatar


Eradicatelol
02.16.2012 , 05:02 PM | #692
Support, too many sith inquisitors and jedi's in these warzones
Eradicate - Shii-Cho
Powertech PvP Master
Empire

syntxerr's Avatar


syntxerr
02.16.2012 , 05:08 PM | #693
Quote: Originally Posted by savionen View Post
Sorc/Sages don't need much else when they have the most CC in the game, Force Run, and can heal, ontop of Bubble.

Bubble isn't invincibility-mode, it's just that Light Armor + Bubble is superior to Medium Armor or Heavy Armor, especially since armor doesn't mitigate internal/elemental damage, but a Bubble still blocks it.
The first is exactly my point, they don't need it because of their utility but if the utility would be cut down, they would have a clear disadvantage.

And considering that other classes have cooldowns and of course their own mix of a bit of CC, you can't just break it down like that and say bubble and light armor > medium armor, because all medium armor classes' abilities would need to be considered as well. Despite the fact, which I have just stated in a previous post, that the bubble protection is not permanent of of course it might seem great over x amount of seconds, but fact is, once the bubble is down you drop quicker than any other class.

savionen's Avatar


savionen
02.16.2012 , 05:14 PM | #694
Quote: Originally Posted by syntxerr View Post
The first is exactly my point, they don't need it because of their utility but if the utility would be cut down, they would have a clear disadvantage.

And considering that other classes have cooldowns and of course their own mix of a bit of CC, you can't just break it down like that and say bubble and light armor > medium armor, because all medium armor classes' abilities would need to be considered as well. Despite the fact, which I have just stated in a previous post, that the bubble protection is not permanent of of course it might seem great over x amount of seconds, but fact is, once the bubble is down you drop quicker than any other class.
Other classes do have damage reduction, but it often doesn't last that long, either. If you look at something like a Vanguard's Reactive Shield, that's 25% reduction for 12 seconds. It has an up-time of 10% if you use it every time it's up. Obviously it's best to be used when you're being bursted, but unless you're tanking in a raid, bubble would actually be superior over time to reactive shield + a shield + heavy armor, and that's sort of the issue.

FodderofCannon's Avatar


FodderofCannon
02.16.2012 , 05:22 PM | #695
Quote: Originally Posted by syntxerr View Post

And since you briefly mentioned 1vs1, imagine how frustrating it would be if for the sake of instanced group play, a class gets taken away tools it depends on in order to have a chacne 1vs1. That would be the wrong way.
As I sated I'm not advocating any nerfs. The other guy just took offense to me saying that Sorcs are EZ mode. I stand by that statement. For me, when I played a sorc, in particular in places like huttball and voidstar it was very easy to get kills, get away when attacked, and generally be really good with little effort.

Only time the class was hard is when say a Sent won't leave you alone, or your getting focused. And honestly even when focused the sorc has way more abilities than other classes to save themselves.

And this was at level 22??!! That's just the tip of the iceberg.

I just think the class is much easier to play than other classes for pvp. It's a nuking class with healing.

Don't nerf them, but don't pretend they are not easy compared to most other classes.

Waagabond's Avatar


Waagabond
02.16.2012 , 05:29 PM | #696
The share amouont of readers and replies suggest this class is out of proportion.
if Bioware does not do anything to this class soon this games pvp is falling apart.

Been playing alts in lower bracket, and the amount of premades with sorcs is staggering.
Yes there is some sages too, but I have had games with 6 sorcs in them.
And they are climbing the levels.

Soon, 50 pvp will have a minimum of 3, more likely 4 up to 5 sorcs per 8 man team.

Does not that kind of speak for itself?
You honestly believe people choose this class cause its "cool" and "fun" to play?

Its overpowred beyond comparison, but there is just a few tweaks that atleast would place it, still ontop of everyone else, but not in another dimension as is now the fact.

The only sorcs complaining about this is people that utterly lacks pvp experience or is protecting their right to be overpowered as they find it fare.

In the hands of a great player, vs another great player of either class but sorc or sage, the sorc will win 100% of all games. And if you think different as a sorc, then its a L2P issue and nothing else.

Waagabond's Avatar


Waagabond
02.16.2012 , 05:30 PM | #697
Any wow Arena gladiator for atleast a few seasons playing sorc that would say this class is balance?
Come on..I know your playing the class some of you. Let me hear it.

syntxerr's Avatar


syntxerr
02.16.2012 , 05:32 PM | #698
Quote: Originally Posted by FodderofCannon View Post
As I sated I'm not advocating any nerfs. The other guy just took offense to me saying that Sorcs are EZ mode. I stand by that statement. For me, when I played a sorc, in particular in places like huttball and voidstar it was very easy to get kills, get away when attacked, and generally be really good with little effort.

Only time the class was hard is when say a Sent won't leave you alone, or your getting focused. And honestly even when focused the sorc has way more abilities than other classes to save themselves.

And this was at level 22??!! That's just the tip of the iceberg.

I just think the class is much easier to play than other classes for pvp. It's a nuking class with healing.

Don't nerf them, but don't pretend they are not easy compared to most other classes.
Well, it depends, I'd say. There are also many bad Sorcs/Sages out there.

Certainly there are more difficult to master classes and classes that simply require more attention/work in order to excel. Marauder and Sniper come to mind. Perhaps even Shadows. But it's not that everyone can play a Sorc to it's full potential either and to be honest with you, playing a Vanguard is just as easy, in my opinion.

Though I agree, the sheer amount of utility makes it quite comfortable at times.

syntxerr's Avatar


syntxerr
02.16.2012 , 05:34 PM | #699
Quote: Originally Posted by Waagabond View Post
The share amouont of readers and replies suggest this class is out of proportion.
if Bioware does not do anything to this class soon this games pvp is falling apart.

Been playing alts in lower bracket, and the amount of premades with sorcs is staggering.
Yes there is some sages too, but I have had games with 6 sorcs in them.
And they are climbing the levels.

Soon, 50 pvp will have a minimum of 3, more likely 4 up to 5 sorcs per 8 man team.

Does not that kind of speak for itself?
You honestly believe people choose this class cause its "cool" and "fun" to play?

Its overpowred beyond comparison, but there is just a few tweaks that atleast would place it, still ontop of everyone else, but not in another dimension as is now the fact.

The only sorcs complaining about this is people that utterly lacks pvp experience or is protecting their right to be overpowered as they find it fare.

In the hands of a great player, vs another great player of either class but sorc or sage, the sorc will win 100% of all games. And if you think different as a sorc, then its a L2P issue and nothing else.
Mh, not sure whether you are serious or not, but if that was the case, there wouldn't be so many classes that can just crush Sorcs.

And again you're making the mistake of taking low level PVP as an example. The Sage/Sorc is an early bloomer, whereas most others are not. And therefore it can seem very OP, especially in the teens. You will also notice that most of the overpopulation is far below 50. And the closer you come to it, the more people quite, because things change and other classes start coming together throughout the levels.

Sirolos's Avatar


Sirolos
02.16.2012 , 05:36 PM | #700
Quote: Originally Posted by savionen View Post
Sorc/Sages don't need much else when they have the most CC in the game, Force Run, and can heal, ontop of Bubble.

Bubble isn't invincibility-mode, it's just that Light Armor + Bubble is superior to Medium Armor or Heavy Armor, especially since armor doesn't mitigate internal/elemental damage, but a Bubble still blocks it.
A bubble will absorb all of 3.2k damage..Unless your a healer with guard..( but if your a healer then theirs not much to worry about DPS wise).

On top of Heavy armor though, they also have their own set of Defensive cooldowns.
So i dont think they bubble makes you stronger than a Heavy Armored Tank.

Force speed is probably one of the most counterable Escape mechanisms in this game.
Its great for when your in a 1 v 1 and the person your fighting is bad.
Its also great in that perfect situation where everything you do is an action blessed by the bright light of Apollo..
But that wont happen all the time.
Quote: Originally Posted by Modecrypt View Post
Sorcs really need to be looked at. They have 7 knockbacks, 5 stuns, , they can cross guard each other
Quote: Originally Posted by Kholvan View Post
Don't make me gouge you with my purple origami horns.