The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

interrupting a mercenary is all that you need to kill him

It might be a bug, but I know 100% for sure its happened. I figured it was a feature of spec'ing into it, because it happened on my Shadow as well (same fundamental skill). I'd Force Lift somebody while literally 3+ people were bashing on them. Figured it was something like Fear on WoW that it had a damage threshold before it would break as a mez.

Haunted Dreams says Whirlwind turns into a 2 second stun when it breaks, that's what I was referring to.

WW+stun fills resolve, but roots aren't affected by resolve, so the sorcerer can still root somebody even though they're currently immune to stuns/knockbacks.

This is not an argument but an insult. Interesting that you accuse me of this, yet your the one doing it. Revealing.

Could you be more specific? What is BS about my comments??


Right. So your saying that because everything is easy, the Sorc isn't easier than any other class? Is this your argument? lol. Come on be honest here...

My main is a Shadow, so dont know where the Sent thing comes from, but realistically? The Sent is easy to burn down, easy to control, and very very hard to play properly. Can they kill a sorc in pure 1v1 situation? Yeah, but they SHOULD BE ABLE TOO, but I am not talking about pure 1v1 here. I am talking overall PvP ability. The Sorc has just so many tools at its disposal compared, it's not even funny. If you were being honest about this you would agree.



Don't pretend you don't have some invested interest in this. Obviously you are defending the class for a reason. I personally don't think they should be nerfed, like I said: the game needs an easy class. And the reality is Sorcs are a very large population in the game. Popular classes should be easier. That's good game design.

Maybe not balanced, but this is about appealing to the largest common denominator.

I actually think the big disadvantage to the sorc is that people hate them so much they will ff you down. Regardless if your even doing objectives or not, people will go out of their way to kill you. I know I do.

I don't know, I have to disagree, judging from your initial post. Alone superlatives like 'disgustingly overpowered in every way' don't really give the impression of being subtle. I also disagree with the whole maths and comparing damage over a long duration and best case scenarios like 'if the bubble is precast', which very rarely happens and if it does, it is either about to expire or has already taken quite a lot of damage and is about to burst. All things that are not being considered at all. Therefore I have to strongly disagree with conclusions like the bubble making up for the light armor and therefore the amount of CC/utility being excessive, because it is purposefully pictured in a way fitting your argument best but it is also very misleading.
However, reality is not like that. Other classes have better defenses no matter what, whereas once you get that bubble down, the Sage/Sorc is going to drop like a fly. That's a fact.

And that was only one of the points for the sake of making it short.

My complaint with analysing this way is, that things are being taken way out of context. Single abilities are being ripped apart and compared to others, things are being calculated over time, etc. And we all know that expecially PVP doesn't work that way and we should all know that things change a lot at 50 and again at 50 with gear.

I read through bits of the original thread... And like that thread, this one has become too much of a juggernaut to read. All-in-all I have seen some good point/counter-point throughout.

My 2 credits: 31 Heal Sepc is fine, 31 DPS spec is fine, Never played 31 Balance spec... but I hear its fine. Hybrid = problem. Fix it!

Question: Does the ability that allows for an instant cast with 20% increased damage also proc for Force Lift/Whirlwind? Is it possible to get an instant cast hard CC without that double talent point in it?

Whatever changes are made, plz don't mess with the Heal spec.. my Sage Seer doesn't like the nerf bat!

What are you not getting about balance? If these things you say are true they are clearly bugs. Report them.

Backlash isn't spelled out so well, the right clicking it off and casting Static Barrier on others to proc blinds from yourself could be intended or bugged. Either way I'd like to see it changed. I think the shield should only blind when broken on damage (so you can't time a bubble blind by running into a group at 29 seconds either), and shouldn't have the blind effects for anyone that is not the caster or also specced into Backlash. I have filled out a bug report for it and suggest you do the same. I have not seen WW or resolve in general function improperly so I have nothing to fill out a bug report with, I suggest you do though.

The damage over time calculation is actually made over 20 seconds to show what a SINGLE bubble does in terms of making up for light armor. I included a bit about a pre-casted bubble because chances are a Sorcerer that's even remotely good will be keeping it up as much as possible. 40k damage over 20 seconds is ridiculously high and even then they're slightly behind heavy armored classes and a good bit above medium armor classes with a SINGLE bubble. I realize I used words like "disgustingly overpowered" especially when referring to "Backlash" but that was intentional. In it's current incarnation "Backlash" certainly is "disgustingly overpowered". In large scale battles with allies to cast bubble on it becomes a 4.5 second cooldown 3 second duration AoE mezz that gives 2 bars of resolve. That's beyond overpowered, that's completely broken.

I know you are referring to someone else with your post, but I'd still like to comment on the above.

Of course the Sage/Sorc comes with a ton of utility and it's true that it is more than certain other classes might have. But at the end of the day you need to consider the reason why this class comes with those tools. Certainly not to annoy you.
There is probably a very good reason for that: because the class needs this to survive in certain scenarios. You will always have classes that shine in group situations and others that don't or can't contribute as much but therefore shine in other aspects of the game. That's natural.

And since you briefly mentioned 1vs1, imagine how frustrating it would be if for the sake of instanced group play, a class gets taken away tools it depends on in order to have a chacne 1vs1. That would be the wrong way.

At the end of the day, there isn't much we can do about it. Classes work in such different ways, that you can't always guarantee certain abilities seemingly being of a bigger advantage over others. Otherwise we might simply give all classes the same abilities with different graphical effect and voila, everyone can contribute the same.

I kind of agree on the latter if that's how it behaves.

Regarding those 20 seconds... yes, it might be of advantage over medium armor classes but you need to consider that a) those medium armor classes might have their own utility abilities or even survival cooldowns, which Sorcs/Sages just don't have and b) that without bubble, no matter what I do, I hardly survive 20 seconds, not even 10 and some DPS classes drop me in about 3 or 4.

That's exactly my concern as well. That's why I argue against switching and shifting talents around, especially those 7 talnets in the TK tree, which are a pure must for Seers and which I don't think make them overpowered in any way.

I think the wisest approach would be to actually make the upper ends of the DPS trees more appealing than the hybrid spec. But again, this would technically be a buff, because it would need to be better than the current hybrid spec.