The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

Good post. Something the devs should look at

1. I linked the highest ranked items but as I mentioned in the post you can obtain lower level mods with the exact same ratios. If a heavy armored juggernaut has more health he is using mods that are have a different stat ratio.

If you're talking champion or BM gear you can simply rip the mods out of other items like everyone else. Champion level(rank 24) mods are extremely easy to obtain. The fact that you're trying to argue that using crap default mods is grounds for a totally different calculation shows you have no real argument.

Here's a little tip: PvE and PvP mods have the EXACT SAME STATS. Enable enhanced tooltips in your settings and I guarantee you'll find whatever stat ratio mod you want for your class just from champion/BM gear.

For the pieces with no mods available to be swapped out you GAIN other stats if the piece has less endurance. All mods/enhancements/etc even out in total stat value.

If all you want is endurance and crappy DPS stats then by all means replace those high primary stat and high power stat mods with high endurance mods.


2. This isn't a logical fallacy. You throw that term around whenever you don't actually have an argument. It's both frustrating and humorous. Mostly frustrating because you basically pretend the entire argument is invalid because you want it to be.

3. What faulty numbers? I just proved that you can have the EXACT same stats as any other class.

4. What analogy? What part of the last 3 of my posts was an analogy? Throwing out words that don't actually make sense in context isn't going to confuse me into agreeing with you. It's going to make everyone think you don't actually have any counterargument and as a result you're throwing out random terms and stringing together nonsense.

5. A control? For what? The math? The control is a 0 armor character with no mitigation. The result is they take the full 20k, 40k, etc damage.

Lormif, it's time for you to just stop, you've created some 100 pages arguing on tangents, bringing up strawman arguments, and then misusing the words "Generalization" and "fallacies"

But you might actually have a point if you're referring to generalizations like Oh wait a minute, that's you. Making a blanket statement like armor mitigation is better than force armor. Not to mention that's completely ridiculous, as tumri correctly pointed out, armor is only better than force armor if you're being healed through ridiculous amounts of damage, in the average fight, that lasts about 10-15 seconds, about 10% more mitigation on armor will range between doing next to nothing (powertechs) To reducing damage by 10% (Juggernauts)

On the other hand, assuming a 3k bubble and a 16k health pool, and that you're not an awful sorcerer and you're bubbling before combat starts, you're essentially going to have an extra 6k health, which means it takes 37.5% extra damage to kill you, and that's against all classes.

So not only are you making sweeping generalizations, but these generalizations aren't even true in the vast majority of scenarios.



But even then this isn't the topic at hand, the thread is clearly titled sorcerer and sage CC is overpowered, the argument here has nothing to do with their survivability (Which is still extremely good overall) so since you're such an expert on "logical fallacies" or at least you really like using that word could I introduce you to a little friend of mine, his name is Red Herring.

Or we are using pvp gear.. Again, you keep assuming I have access to PVE mods

So you argue in circles. The Champ/bm mods are the default, but it is crap.

If I can get multiples of the items, that takes a while... Not to mention, as a caster stacking end is not always the best course

Me gaining more stats does not negate that you have more hps and your armor mitigation scales with your hps...

read above, which is why you cant assume everyone has the same hps.

It is a fallacy, look up hasty generalization. You are arguing that because some pvpers have access to the best mods, all pvpers have access to them, which is not true.

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3. What faulty numbers? I just proved that you can have the EXACT same stats as any other class.
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Actually you didnt.. You still did not make up for the offhand and static peices..... In additon you even pointed out that having the same stats may gimp some classes, showing why again you cant assume even hps.

Your analogy of the 2 heavy armors vs the 1 sorc, do you even remember what you argue?

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A control can also be a static level of gear...IE no changes.

Complete and utter nonsense.
Fact is that among the DPS classes Sorc/Sage has one of the lowest reliable single target bursts. Their DPS is decent and their main strength is AoE and DoTs which causes the inflated numbers among the silly fact that shield absorb is counted as healing.
The burst is also not reliable at all since it is based on a 30% procc from a 3 second channel wich also roots us for that time.
So burstwise we are far from 90%.
At best our DPS is at "90%" and it easily interupted. If you see a Sage or Sorc channeling interupt that. It denies them regaining force and their proccs for instant casts. Most important spell to interupt.
Healing as hybrid with no points in Seer is bad. Healing in combat against any opponent with one functional braincell is impossible with no instant heal and no pushback resistance. It burns force fast and if we are ever low on force we have only one method to come back and that is killing ourselves
To put our regeneration talent into perspective, you sacrifice 15% maximum health for 8% force gain. You can at best do this 6 times for 90% maximum health you can get 48% force back.
Still sounds so great?

PS: I do not play hybrid by the way.


@Lormif
Why are you wasting your time with that guy? He thinks is opinion is oh so objective and funnily even though he plays one of the classes which can absolutely destroy a Sage/Sorc in a 1v1 situation he thinks the class must be nerfed badly.
On top of that he has to resort to vastly exaggerated claims. He was proven wrong by tons of players even players who do not even play Sage/Sorc.

I give you an advice, get some popcorn, enjoy the show and hope Bioware does not listen to the forum whiners.

Because the worst place to find balance for a game in general are PvP forums. At least official ones. Too many bad players crying or raging.

Erm, no.
If at all the devs should avoid from these forums like the plague.

My answers are in red.

A what strawman, and I did not bring up the tangent, it was actually you.

Actually I pointed out how it was not a blanket statement... Tumri however decides to use anecdotal evidence to try and prove it wrong.

So if I cant get my bubble on before every fight I am a bad sorcerer.... Because you know fights can not start one after the other leaving me with a cooldown.. You know that is kinda a fall...Oh nevermind you guys never give up with that....

Still you are ASSUMING a lot.. However Armor is ALWAYS on. In addition when you dont assume everyone has the same hps, which they wont, armor comes out on top.

I have not made many if any sweeping generalizations, where as you have made many, and it happens that mine are correct, atleast on every server I play on. I dont know which server you guys play on where everyone has around 16k hps.

Well thanks for pointing out the pro nerf side commiteda fallacy, since the ones who brought this up, at least to me...., particularly the OP.

I am going to point out one thing, because I am tired of arguing with you...

In this conversation we are talking about hps, so when I am talking about offhands, it is pretty much implied I am talking about hps, yet for some reason your circular argument decides to throw in all stats in general.....

CC of which many break on 1 point of damage and can be dispelled by all healers and sages and sorcs who not healer specced.
Yep great argument.

Good thread, hope the devs take it to heart and nerf the everliving **** out of sorcs!