Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

And 2 dps.

no, noone takes anything from anyone.

X people enter the queue. Y groups leave.

This is the core of your mistake; you're looking at server wait times when that doesn't exist in a cross server queue. So averaging the values in that situation doesn't actually produce a meaningful number.

That's your problem: there's no such thing as a "wait time per server", because there isn't a server queue. There's only a wait time per group, or a wait time per person.

The average wait time in queue A is 15 minutes; 4 groups form every hour
The average wait time in queue B is 20 minutes; 3 groups form every hour
The average wait time in queue C is 30 minutes; 2 groups form every hour (edit: typo)
The average wait time in queue D is 6:40 minutes; 9 groups form every hour


the per person wait time is directly proportional to the group wait time.

Windy say nothing? The point is pretty clear, but I'll try to make it more concise:

Your argument = Dungeonfinder led to ezmode content in WoW and therefore it would do the same in TOR
Reality = Blizzard began nerfing content and releasing easier instances more than a year ( several years if you really want to look back at the strings of content nerfs and gear giveaways they've done ) before the tool was implemented.

AND: That irrespective of the above, the two points are entirely unique subjects and should be treated as such. The argument that people who don't want the most difficult and time consuming portion of a flashpoint to be forming the group also ubiquitously want the content to be piss easy is utter nonsense.


What about someone who wants to join a group, but doesn't want to sit in the fleet?

I'd love to do Cademimu right now, but I'm busy finishing the Nar Shaddaa bonus series, and therefore cannot see who is in the fleet asking for people for Cademimu, nor ask in the fleet myself.

Isn't it? People are asking for tools to make it more reasonable to find groups for flashpoints without having to sit in the fleet for a potentially protracted period of time. You say that this would ruin the game. It's not really that much of a stretch, it's simply rephrasing your statement.

Oh you can feel free to form an opinion. Just don't expect anyone to agree that your opinion is fact, when it's not.

Its actually your problem because you're the one theorycrafting with supposed average wait times. Then you failed at math when using those numbers you pulled out of your derriere.

Oh geez

I got away for a few hours and Darth Khaos is still on here trying to convince people that the LFD tool on WoW takes longer to form groups than without one.

Jesus H Christ.

I still didnt see any explanation for how if it takes 50 minutes to find a single group using the LFD tool while it was searching the, yes, entire subscription base of the United States yet there is some magical way to find tanks/healers on a single server much faster.

I also am not real sure what you and Ferr are discussing with the numbers.

They are irrelevant:

On WoW - RIGHT NOW - at peak hours it takes less than 5 minutes to form a group whether you are dps/tank/healer.

off-peak it takes between 5-10 minutes if you're a DPS and less than 5 if you're a healer/tank.

It's faster, especially at off-peak hours, than if you were limited to your own server attempting to find PUGS.

LFD is irrelevant and has no effect on people who have guilds/groups of friends who raid exclusively together.

Did, I hurt your feelings or something? If so, I apologize.

The average wait time in queue A is 15 minutes; 4 groups form every hour
The average wait time in queue B is 20 minutes; 3 groups form every hour
The average wait time in queue C is 30 minutes; 2 groups form every hour
The average wait time in queue D is 6:40 minutes; 9 groups form every hour

where is the math error?

I'm just using your words.

You have an issue with what you said?

No, you asserted that WoTLK came out of the box pre nerfed so any additional nerfs couldn't possibly be the result of an auto grouping tool. Then you cited halls of reflection as evidence that LFD could come with harder content as well. Everyone who played at that time knows that halls of reflection was the bane of LFD. It was the one instance that sort of demanded respect thus was miserable for most people to do via LFD.

If HoR popped in my LFD queue, I would usually have to wait awhile inside the dungeon for people to show up, realize where they were, and leave the group because getting the 15 minute deserter debuff was well worth not having to run HoR via LFD for them. Thats the success story you get when trying combining challenge even to a moderate extent with an auto grouping tool like that.

My worry about a LFD tool is not just the LFD tool in and of itself, but what overly convenient multi-player content devolves into.

What happened in WoW is that Heroics went from being content into being vending machines for loot. People didn't run them for story or for fun. They ran them to get the rewards at the end, and felt compelled to run them over and over and quickly became both jaded and with zero patience or tolerance for newer or lesser geared or skilled players. In short, it started making pretty much everyone miserable.

While that outcome is not inevitable in SWTOR, I suspect the same thing will happen.