Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

I know there are several threads on this, but I'd like to debunk some of the myths there are out there. Hopefully others will join and hopefully I might also actually see a legitimate reason to why BW shouldn't implement a LFD tool.

What keeps getting lost in all of this is that those who supposedly don't want a LFG tool keep getting mischaracterized as such.

Those with issues with tool typically do want an automated LFG tool and matchmaking system. They just want it tied to the server that the player is on rather thana cross server system similar to WOW's. Most of them have experienced the pain that comes along with the convenience over in WOW and wonder if maybe it can be done without killing the local server comunities the way that WOW's did.

See I know some of you are concerned about low pop servers. BUT do those concerns mean that we need to kill of what thriving comunities there are?

An automated LFG tool if restricted to the local server has great benefits. It would allow players to queue up for content that they wish to experience, go do other activities while waiting, and overall give a seemless interface for experiencing the games instances etc. By keeping it just to the local server it also GROWS the community. The people that you are randomly paired with, you can remember them. Add them to your friends list. Play with them again. Those people that you random group with that all seem really nice, well look they are all from the same guild. Maybe you might want to join them? Maybe after meeting a few people this way you can put together a regularly scheduled night. Do operations, whatever. It is win win across the boards. There is no downside to such a mechanism.

Whereas look at the pro/con analysis of the cross server mechanism.

Pro's - Above and beyond the single server LFG, it allows for slightly faster queue times, for some lower population servers, and some roles. However experience with WOW seems to give the impression that this may simply be illusionary or at best only really be the case during extreme off peak play times. Otherwise there really is very little difference in queue times. But is it worth shaving 5 minutes off the queues for low pop servers is...

Con's - The mechanism of pure anonymity kills the social aspect of the game. You will never ever see or group with the people you are teamed with again. There is no history. There is no making long lasting friends (and those long lasting friends. THOSE are what drives long term paying game subscribers). There is no building of guilds from anonymous cross server groups. Further the anonymity leads to a rampant non cooperative antisocial style of gameplay, whereby large portions of the gaming population are only grouping for their own personal narcisitic needs and not the enjoyment of the social gaming aspects of the game. This leads to griefing, harassment, bad experiences and just all around @zzhattery.

So what exactly is the overall long term benefit of outright demanding that any LFG tool MUST be cross server? What is the logic behind this? What clear benefit is it to the game, the games operators and the games playing population at large?

And lets not forget. When WOW put such a system in, they did not start with a LFG tool. That system is simply a modified extension of the MASSIVE infrastructure change that they had put in place when they added PVP Battlegrounds several years prior. At that time it required an incredible amount of re-engineering and total system overhauls at the WOW datacenters. Just to permit the WOW servers to in some ways communicate with the other specific world servers that were located within the same physical datacenter infrastructure. (That's what the WOW Battlegroups are. They are clusters of servers that are all in the same room, at the various datacenters). It took years of engineering to get to that point. And a massive hardware overhaul just before TBC.

Now if SWTOR did not release with such features in place, and there has been no real public discussion about such features clearly on the development horizon, than there is much better than a good chance that the server and network infrastructure and the games overall engine was not initially built with such a system in mind. It's not something that they can simply turn on. It's not some simple game code that they can program. If it isn't there already than it is a HUGE infrastructure undertaking. Which would probably take about 18-24 months to design test and implement. (So I would not expect to see any such system until the first expansion released).

Whereas a local same server only LFG system is just local server code and can be simply programmed. It could probably be setup within a weeks or months time frame.

So remind me again? Which way is it that they absolutely positively MUST do it?

Just to add. After they added LFG they also complained that it was now to long for them being casuals that they cant run them in 15 mins.

Also dont say that you just want a LFG and you dont want the difficulty decreased so you can do it quicker, because we all know thats a lie and once you get a LFG you will be complaining about it the first day. Then since its in the game already they wont take it out and you will somehow still cry that Bioware is catering to the hardcore again and ignoring the casuals because they dont have enough time to do the instance even though before when they wanted LFG they had the time but just couldnt waste the time to find the group.

Once Bioware opens the door and inch with putting in LFG its over. From there it will be nerf nerf nerf untill everything can be done in 10 mins.

What keeps getting lost in all of this is that those who supposedly don't want a LFG tool keep getting mischaracterized as such.

Those with issues with tool typically do want an automated LFG tool and matchmaking system. They just want it tied to the server that the player is on rather thana cross server system similar to WOW's. Most of them have experienced the pain that comes along with the convenience over in WOW and wonder if maybe it can be done without killing the local server comunities the way that WOW's did.

See I know some of you are concerned about low pop servers. BUT do those concerns mean that we need to kill of what thriving comunities there are?

An automated LFG tool if restricted to the local server has great benefits. It would allow players to queue up for content that they wish to experience, go do other activities while waiting, and overall give a seemless interface for experiencing the games instances etc. By keeping it just to the local server it also GROWS the community. The people that you are randomly paired with, you can remember them. Add them to your friends list. Play with them again. Those people that you random group with that all seem really nice, well look they are all from the same guild. Maybe you might want to join them? Maybe after meeting a few people this way you can put together a regularly scheduled night. Do operations, whatever. It is win win across the boards. There is no downside to such a mechanism.

Whereas look at the pro/con analysis of the cross server mechanism.

Pro's - Above and beyond the single server LFG, it allows for slightly faster queue times, for some lower population servers, and some roles. However experience with WOW seems to give the impression that this may simply be illusionary or at best only really be the case during extreme off peak play times. Otherwise there really is very little difference in queue times. But is it worth shaving 5 minutes off the queues for low pop servers is...

Con's - The mechanism of pure anonymity kills the social aspect of the game. You will never ever see or group with the people you are teamed with again. There is no history. There is no making long lasting friends (and those long lasting friends. THOSE are what drives long term paying game subscribers). There is no building of guilds from anonymous cross server groups. Further the anonymity leads to a rampant non cooperative antisocial style of gameplay, whereby large portions of the gaming population are only grouping for their own personal narcisitic needs and not the enjoyment of the social gaming aspects of the game. This leads to griefing, harassment, bad experiences and just all around @zzhattery.

So what exactly is the overall long term benefit of outright demanding that any LFG tool MUST be cross server? What is the logic behind this? What clear benefit is it to the game, the games operators and the games playing population at large?

And lets not forget. When WOW put such a system in, they did not start with a LFG tool. That system is simply a modified extension of the MASSIVE infrastructure change that they had put in place when they added PVP Battlegrounds several years prior. At that time it required an incredible amount of re-engineering and total system overhauls at the WOW datacenters. Just to permit the WOW servers to in some ways communicate with the other specific world servers that were located within the same physical datacenter infrastructure. (That's what the WOW Battlegroups are. They are clusters of servers that are all in the same room, at the various datacenters). It took years of engineering to get to that point. And a massive hardware overhaul just before TBC.

Now if SWTOR did not release with such features in place, and there has been no real public discussion about such features clearly on the development horizon, than there is much better than a good chance that the server and network infrastructure and the games overall engine was not initially built with such a system in mind. It's not something that they can simply turn on. It's not some simple game code that they can program. If it isn't there already than it is a HUGE infrastructure undertaking. Which would probably take about 18-24 months to design test and implement. (So I would not expect to see any such system until the first expansion released).

Whereas a local same server only LFG system is just local server code and can be simply programmed. It could probably be setup within a weeks or months time frame.

So remind me again? Which way is it that they absolutely positively MUST do it?

You may be right. It is obvious they are already so bad at finding groups they need someone to do it for them.

This, this, a million times this.

Why isn't a server-wide LFG system good enough? Even excluding the infrastructure cost of linking the servers, even ignoring that, are the cons of such a system really worth the pro of 1-3 minute faster queues? Because that's the only difference on all but the lowest of population servers.

I would LOVE to see chat logs from people who get PUGS server-side and compare them to chat logs from LFD groups.

I've been in absolutely silent pugs in both and extremely talkative pugs.

I've pugged with people server-side I never saw again and there are people I've pugged with multiple times in LFD from other servers.

The only thing I'd suggest is to let ppl friend people on other servers in some way(perhaps impossible)

This mythical community that is being broken has never existed. Your community with your guild/friends does not get effected in the slightest by LFG and if it does that is not LFG's fault its your guilds fault.

LFR and LFD were introduced for very different reasons. LFR was introduced as a band aid fix for a mistake blizzard made when they decided that people should only get one raid lock out 10 or 25 man per week. This decision lead to a siginificant decrease in pug raiding, it made it much harder to recruit and overall it lead to content being far less accessible than in the previous expansions. It was the WORST decision they made in cataclysm by far.