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Uncap Champ Bags, Allow Battlemaster Aquistion while leveling

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Uncap Champ Bags, Allow Battlemaster Aquistion while leveling

Aroidan's Avatar


Aroidan
02.13.2012 , 06:17 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Lerdoc View Post
Show me one single MMO that allows you to get end game max level gear without being max level.

Tell me logical reason why pvp should be exception, considering the fact that we even have separate bracket for 50 pvp.
To start DAOC

UO would be another one

Ohh pretty sure EQ would be on that list as well (Never played that one personally though)

LOTRO is on that list as well, I had my legendary weapon long before I could use one. Although I haven't played that mmo in a while so not sure how it changed. Also a lot of the best gear was crafted.


Ohh and why should PvP be an exception? Because PvP is about Player vs Player combat not a gear grind. Incorporating a gear grind into that game mechanic is fail and detracts away from the skill of playing a character. Anybody who is in full BM gear should be able to beat a fresh 50 regardless of how well the fresh 50 plays and how bad the BM plays. To start they are going to be hitting almost twice as hard and have at least 50% more hitpoints.

SoulstitchMMO's Avatar


SoulstitchMMO
02.13.2012 , 06:18 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Lerdoc View Post
There is a reason why each and every sane mmo does not allow you to aquire end game gear before you actually hit end game.

If you don't see that reason, then you are in wrong game type(MMO) and should be in a shooter or a MOBA.

MMO is like a big pizza. PvP is just one slice. Don't expect a single slice to make the hunger go away.
Also that's the major complaint about gearing in WOW. It's just that Trion and Bioware hired people that had never actually played any other MMO than WOW to make their pvp systems.

Srqt's Avatar


Srqt
02.13.2012 , 06:18 PM | #23
As it is you can open 6 bags as soon as you ding 50 without even counting the dailies and weeklies you get access too right when you pop.

If you remove the cap you also might as well remove tier 1 pvp gear. It is not at all hard to gear up in this game what you are asking for is just getting gear handed to you.

Aetou's Avatar


Aetou
02.13.2012 , 06:21 PM | #24
With the changes that have already happened to gear acquisition you can now get full centurion + lots of champion within a week of hitting 50. I mean, 6 bags immediately then 2-3 a day plus the extras for the weekly... call it 25 bags. That's 175 Champion Commendations and 375 Centurion commendations.

That really isn't much of a grind, the only grind that is left is the Valor to let you start picking up BM bags and even though it's slow I don't see any good reason to change it. It should take a few weeks to achieve. You also definitely don't need Champion/Battlemaster gear to excel in WZs. I did a couple of Warzones yesterday in my Roleplaying outfit (forgot to change) and I was still picking up 7+ medals, getting decent damage and so on. I admit that my RP gear has solid mods in it (Purple 50s) but I actually had a few slots empty (Bracers, for example) and was running around the 300 expertise mark (i.e., less than full Centurion.) Honestly, a lot of new 50s want to blame the perceived gear disparity for their poor performance when a large slice of the issue is either (1) their gear isn't even L50, in which case their should be struggling or (2) they are just playing against better opponents, with less casuals and lowbies to farm to make them think they are awesome.

Lerdoc's Avatar


Lerdoc
02.13.2012 , 06:21 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Aroidan View Post
Umm that is just flat out wrong. There are plenty of SANE mmos that let you aquire high end gear before you get to that high end. They just happen to not be WoW clones. Infact I would venture to say that there are far more games that don't have the requirement to be max level before aquiring the gear. (This does not mean you could use the gear before 50)
I'm willing to see that "plenty" listed by you.
And for your own sake, I really do hope you don't speak about sandboxes here as the only thing in common with level based themeparks they have is that you create your own avatar and play it.

Quote: Originally Posted by SoulstitchMMO View Post
GW2. There ya go.
Oh yea, because we know a lot about GW2 outside few skills of classes and how it looks Try again.
And don't try with GW1 as its hardly MMO.

SoulstitchMMO's Avatar


SoulstitchMMO
02.13.2012 , 06:24 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Aetou View Post
With the changes that have already happened to gear acquisition you can now get full centurion + lots of champion within a week of hitting 50. I mean, 6 bags immediately then 2-3 a day plus the extras for the weekly... call it 25 bags. That's 175 Champion Commendations and 375 Centurion commendations.

That really isn't much of a grind, the only grind that is left is the Valor to let you start picking up BM bags and even though it's slow I don't see any good reason to change it. It should take a few weeks to achieve. You also definitely don't need Champion/Battlemaster gear to excel in WZs. I did a couple of Warzones yesterday in my Roleplaying outfit (forgot to change) and I was still picking up 7+ medals, getting decent damage and so on. I admit that my RP gear has solid mods in it (Purple 50s) but I actually had a few slots empty (Bracers, for example) and was running around the 300 expertise mark (i.e., less than full Centurion.) Honestly, a lot of new 50s want to blame the perceived gear disparity for their poor performance when a large slice of the issue is either (1) their gear isn't even L50, in which case their should be struggling or (2) they are just playing against better opponents, with less casuals and lowbies to farm to make them think they are awesome.
So other than your anedotal isolated exception to the rule story, you're trying to tell me that the absolutely rampant gaming of the system, cheating, and hacking isn't being done at the moment so that people can gear up as fast as possible and guarantee wins?

You're honestly telling me that's not going on? That people are all playing to pvp instead of grinding to gear up.

MillaLyte's Avatar


MillaLyte
02.13.2012 , 06:28 PM | #27
Why do you think you should just automatically be thrown in line with people who have grinded with the 50s and earned respect and proved themselves when all your doing is grinding lowbies who most the time can't play their class or dont have their talents... Quit whining and get to 50 and prove yourself worthy of the gear first, I don't want to see fresh scrubs with BM gear they increased commendations already for you.

SoulstitchMMO's Avatar


SoulstitchMMO
02.13.2012 , 06:33 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by MillaLyte View Post
Why do you think you should just automatically be thrown in line with people who have grinded with the 50s and earned respect and proved themselves when all your doing is grinding lowbies who most the time can't play their class or dont have their talents... Quit whining and get to 50 and prove yourself worthy of the gear first, I don't want to see fresh scrubs with BM gear they increased commendations already for you.
Holy crap you're serious? You know the difference between you and me? I don't look at "grinding gear" with respect. Because fresh 50s will still die to me if they haven't been practicing their class with leveling.

The only seperating most players right now is a gear advantage. When I'm geared out I want others geared out so I can fight people on equal footing and make whoever wins down to team comp and skillful play.

Aroidan's Avatar


Aroidan
02.13.2012 , 06:38 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Lerdoc View Post
I'm willing to see that "plenty" listed by you.
And for your own sake, I really do hope you don't speak about sandboxes here as the only thing in common with level based themeparks they have is that you create your own avatar and play it.



Oh yea, because we know a lot about GW2 outside few skills of classes and how it looks Try again.
And don't try with GW1 as its hardly MMO.
What the heck are you talking about? I listed 4 other major MMORPG games that would allow you to aquire top level gear before you got to that level. FFS EQ is where the term twinking came out of because putting lowbie toons in high level gear was so rampent.

I just don't see why this game needs to be a WoW clone. There is a reason why no other WoW clone has really had major success. They aren't WoW and people who want WoW style level progression should play WoW. PvP should be about the combat and skill of other players not the gear they have.

MillaLyte's Avatar


MillaLyte
02.13.2012 , 06:46 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by SoulstitchMMO View Post
Holy crap you're serious? You know the difference between you and me? I don't look at "grinding gear" with respect. Because fresh 50s will still die to me if they haven't been practicing their class with leveling.

The only seperating most players right now is a gear advantage. When I'm geared out I want others geared out so I can fight people on equal footing and make whoever wins down to team comp and skillful play.
So you think a level 50 should be able to fully deck himself out and make the highest tier pvp set as common as a bottle of water? What's the point of keeping people from stopping at 50 then and just rolling alts? Not only is there no incentive if you can do all this from 10-49 this will destroy progression. I dont want to look the same as some dude that just turned 50 a few hours ago, you can be competitive via skill and team work and earn the gear that way. If I step into a wz an everyone has BM gear thats retarded, I'm not even fully equipped but I don't want to be handed gear. I play this cause I'm competitive and I like the challenge of killing someone that's better equipped than myself, that's why despite all the scrubs complaining about ops/scoundrel nerfs i found it more fun.