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"Advanced Classes = Fundamentally Different Class Designs"

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
"Advanced Classes = Fundamentally Different Class Designs"

grandmthethird's Avatar


grandmthethird
03.09.2012 , 11:19 AM | #361
Quote: Originally Posted by CorellianWannabe View Post
So rather than remove respecs or disallow dual specs you would simply deny advanced spec changing? Why? Because more people would whine about dual spec than advanced spec? Because people can't read about talents before allocating points to them and want an undo button?

Because choices should matter? Or because it somehow ruins your gameplay for me to have the choice, like another poster said?

And if I have no interest in playing one side or the other? Maybe I don't think torturing a slave is funny-guess that leaves out a class for me. Oh well, time to play out Chosen One Jedi again.. I'm sure Sentinel instead of Guardian will result in a VASTLY different play experience.
just saying the option to play all 8 ACs are there. plus you don't have to go darkside as a sith. i don't plan on playing darkside as my IA when i roll it. and i don't plan on playing lightside as a smuggler.
"Hope has a vicious enemy called fate"

Costantino's Avatar


Costantino
03.09.2012 , 11:36 AM | #362
They WILL not nor SHOULD they ever allow AC switching because it will cause imbalance. Other people have used this argument and yet the people who want the switch say that it is invalid. Wrong. It will cause to many shifts of people playing an AC. Imagine what would happen if after one patch, lets say the patch early this year that reduced Opretives and Scoundrel Burst damage, a lot of the people who played those AC were not happy. If AC switching was allowed there would be VERY FEW Opretives and Scoundrel. They would to switch to the next best thing. They are not weak but not favored anymore because they can't one shot. That's why some people selected that AC, to be overpowered, now that they are not they want to be something else. Switching AC would cause favoritism of the most OP AC. That can't happen, every AC has something to bring to the table choose one that YOU like and play.

chaosdefined's Avatar


chaosdefined
03.09.2012 , 11:46 AM | #363
Quote: Originally Posted by Costantino View Post
They WILL not nor SHOULD they ever allow AC switching because it will cause imbalance. Other people have used this argument and yet the people who want the switch say that it is invalid. Wrong. It will cause to many shifts of people playing an AC. Imagine what would happen if after one patch, lets say the patch early this year that reduced Opretives and Scoundrel Burst damage, a lot of the people who played those AC were not happy. If AC switching was allowed there would be VERY FEW Opretives and Scoundrel. They would to switch to the next best thing. They are not weak but not favored anymore because they can't one shot. That's why some people selected that AC, to be overpowered, now that they are not they want to be something else. Switching AC would cause favoritism of the most OP AC. That can't happen, every AC has something to bring to the table choose one that YOU like and play.
But then the same happens without AC changing. People don't like an AC and so they re-roll to go the other. This makes for a lack of that certain AC.

AC changing would nothing to do with a lack of people playing an AC.

Wetworks's Avatar


Wetworks
03.09.2012 , 11:57 AM | #364
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
False, the moment the option to change AC becomes available, it will mean that people can make "demands" from others to not only alter their spec, but also their AC. "Sorry, the guild no longer needs a gunslinger, but you can stay if you switch to scoundrel". You might like to dismiss that, but it WOULD happen, and that's completely unacceptable. You want a scoundrel? Then roll a scoundrel. You want to tank? Then don't pick a healing AC.
That is your guild changing your gameplay and choice, not the game itself.

Guilds do that now, , if we are talking NM mode, well then ya respec to what we as a guild needs to overcome content...nothing new. Current state of AC's already dictate that already some AC's are only good for leveling, ops, pvp. For example you dont bring a tactics dps Trooper to a operation.

But thats ok, skip all the valid points I make and go for the first sentence, that is still valid.

Wetworks's Avatar


Wetworks
03.09.2012 , 11:58 AM | #365
Quote: Originally Posted by CorellianWannabe View Post
Then those people can be assertive and say NO. If you're willing to kowtow to a guild then I'm sorry for you, but why should your bowing to peer pressure affect me? That is what is completely unacceptable.

By your logic respecs are evil too- "Sorry we need a healer tonight. Respec your trooper-I don't care how much it costs." And dual specs will be the death of the game, won't they? All those players being forced to tank and heal due to the insistence of guilds without any respite. It's not like they can say no and find less demanding players to gropu with..
Very good point.

Wetworks's Avatar


Wetworks
03.09.2012 , 12:01 PM | #366
Quote: Originally Posted by grandmthethird View Post
you can't say who has a vaild point in taking part in this discussion mearly coz you don't like their view point.

how about this argument

they have already ruled out AC change, so there is no point in any1 taking part in this discussion

personally i think AC change should not be allowed. its good that a choice you make has a real impact on the rest of your game. weigh up your options and make up your mind, have some conviction
Nothing wrong with opinion in the Suggestion forums, but opinion and making a valid point are two different things. So far the opinion and any attempted valid points to not have AC change do to it ruining game play of players who don't want it has yet to be made, on the other hand very good valid points have been made on how it can make the game better w/no negative results to players who don't want to take part in it.

It is a game, you want your decisions to have a impact save it for real life. Buy a house, change careers, get married...sorry I dont need "conviction" in a StarWars mmo. You guys already lost the death penalty fight, time to move on realize mmo's are not the same as 5-7yrs ago for good reason.

"They WILL not nor SHOULD they ever allow AC switching because it will cause imbalance. Other people have used this argument and yet the people who want the switch say that it is invalid. Wrong. It will cause to many shifts of people playing an AC. Imagine what would happen if after one patch, lets say the patch early this year that reduced Opretives and Scoundrel Burst damage, a lot of the people who played those AC were not happy. If AC switching was allowed there would be VERY FEW Opretives and Scoundrel. They would to switch to the next best thing. They are not weak but not favored anymore because they can't one shot. That's why some people selected that AC, to be overpowered, now that they are not they want to be something else. Switching AC would cause favoritism of the most OP AC. That can't happen, every AC has something to bring to the table choose one that YOU like and play."

Here is what will happen too, we get bored and just stop playing...trust me when I say BW pays more attention to $$$ then these posts. Will it be from a nerdrage quit, nope....it will be because I will not waste my time and fall behind to get to Valor 60 again, datacrons again, codex again, gear again, level again, crafting/crew skill again, affection again, rider license again, same missions again, same choices again to be able to compete in endgame content or pvp. Plain and simple, easy for you to say then quit when you get bored to that point or unable to fill ops slots do to a lack AC's, but from a business point of view that is something they are VERY worried about.

as far imbalance classes go....Sorc....I cant spit in WZ w/o hitting 6-7 each WZ. Imbalance is the issue right now, AC changing will help balance the need for certain AC's (tank/heal, etc..).
On a PvP point a view, you honestly think that every pre-made 8m pvp group is going to bring every AC, people are going to be left out of content if this does not change.

Not one good point on how AC changing will effect gameplay of other players in a negative way, this is looking good.

Sapphix's Avatar


Sapphix
03.09.2012 , 03:32 PM | #367
Quote: Originally Posted by Sapphix View Post
It does effect Bioware's game. We have no idea what they have planned for the future. What if they want to give each AC their own story, companion or ships in the upcoming expansions?
Quote: Originally Posted by CorellianWannabe View Post
Why would they bother? It's not like it was important enough for them to differentiate the ACs for the first 50 levels.
It wasn't a design issue, it was a time and money issue. I would rather see Bioware start identifying the ACs separately rather than blending them together.

aznthecapn's Avatar


aznthecapn
03.09.2012 , 03:41 PM | #368
Quote: Originally Posted by Wetworks View Post
But thats ok, skip all the valid points I make and go for the first sentence, that is still valid.
Just like you've been doing since you started posting in this thread? Right.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wetworks View Post
So far the opinion and any attempted valid points to not have AC change do to it ruining game play of players who don't want it has yet to be made, on the other hand very good valid points have been made on how it can make the game better w/no negative results to players who don't want to take part in it.
Its extremely narrow minded of you to think that no valid point has been made by the opposing faction but your faction has done nothing but make valid points. That line of reasoning is no conducive to discussion at all. You're blindingly swinging a bat at the problem instead of attempting to find a way around it using your eyes and your brain.

Clearly SOME valid points have been made by those against AC switching - its not in the game! Do not confuse "no valid reason" with "no reason I agree with". They are not the same. You clearly disagree - the reasons given against change are quite valid.

I fully acknowledge that changing ACs may, at some point, be a good thing for the game. I may change my mind about it down the road. Right now though, I much prefer things as they are. I'm also okay with allowing people to experience both ACs as they level to decide which they prefer to play. Once you hit 50 you pick one and you're stuck. Some extremists even say this is too much but, in my mind, its about compromising and this is the best one I have seen.
Ke'lan & Mod'rianne - Member of <Psy Ops> - Empire
Ke'lann & Dyn'zel - Officer of <Endor Rangers> - Republic
“Do or do not... there is no try.”

VanorDM's Avatar


VanorDM
03.09.2012 , 03:46 PM | #369
Quote: Originally Posted by Wetworks View Post
not one good point on how AC changing will effect gameplay of other players in a negative way
Then you have clearly chosen to ignore all the good points made about why allowing class changes will harm the game and the players. Because there have been a ton of good reasons brought up why this should never be allowed.

But I'm sure you'll simply ignore this like you have everything else, and this debate will continue to be a "did so! did not!" type discussion.

aznthecapn's Avatar


aznthecapn
03.09.2012 , 03:48 PM | #370
Quote: Originally Posted by CorellianWannabe View Post
So developers never change their mind on anything? I guess the GTN will never get more user-friendly then. Too bad..
Or perhaps, and this is just a stab in the dark, they didn't have time to implement the GTN like they wanted to so they rolled it out with the intent of going back and improving functionality? That isn't changing your mind.

They never released ACs with the intent to allow them to change. The only time it was in talked about going in game was when they felt there wasn't a good explanation of what each AC was and what they did. But then they added that interface you see before you pick one (allows you to see their roles, armor, talent trees) and decided it was enough information and you didn't need to be able to change it. Changing wasn't even in beta.

Yes, they can change their mind but its not going to happen three weeks after they said no and its not going to happen with the same tired arguments that have been made for months. The topic needs to go away for a few months - let the game age, let players get into it more and let Bioware flesh out their intense post-launch plan of game improvements. We may see something down the road that won't make anyone WANT to change classes. We don't know.

What we do know is that, for now, its not going to happen and arguing about it is pointless.
Ke'lan & Mod'rianne - Member of <Psy Ops> - Empire
Ke'lann & Dyn'zel - Officer of <Endor Rangers> - Republic
“Do or do not... there is no try.”