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Pvp Tanks - Pros and Cons

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Pvp Tanks - Pros and Cons

Xallionn's Avatar


Xallionn
02.13.2012 , 10:19 AM | #1
I've been running as a sorc healer for a long time in warzones and feel that it's time for a change of pace. I've decided on a tank (or at least being able to guard+taunt), but I'm trying to better understand the pros and cons of the tank classes. I'm looking for Survivability, Utility, Damage in Pvp environments. Does anyone have a link to where this is already outlined? Can level 50 tanks speak up as to what they feel they can bring to the table better/worse than other tanks?

Metajedi's Avatar


Metajedi
02.13.2012 , 10:35 AM | #2
im not a pro pvper, but I have tanked a lot in pvp.

I know there is thsi whole thing about defense being a useless stat, it probably is I dunno.
Im a level 37 Jg and have recently been tanking in pvp. Loving it to death.

I devote myself entirely to guarding, taunting ( my taunts are always on cool down) and interrupting and generally annoying the crap out of healers... I get a kill in here or there but man I am really hard to take down especially with a healer on me.

Every single match win or lose I take home 5-7 medals In just 2-3 days of pvp I bought the whole lvl 40 tank set cant wait to wear it it looks awesome.

What I can say is this, dont go into pvp with the mindset your an unstoppable juggernaut who can outlast every class and rack up tons of kills theres you basically hit liek a wet noodle unless you got dps gear on, but I dont I stay pure tank and I think im a lot more sucessful.

Ive seen other JG's and other people who try to rack up protection dmg...but every single WZ im in im the only one who does it significantly. I am usually at 80-90k protection and the next guy under me is at 25-30k which tells me he probably just throws a guard up somewhere.

You can make a lot of difference as a Tank... cant tell you how many times my team has survived onslaughts because ive taunted and guarded the healer when the empire comes in for the center point on alderaan.

I noticed once the other side figured out what i was doing and why there dmg was so crappy ( especially when I aoe taunt) they focused me down hard so be prepared for that, but as a healer im sure you are already.
You will pay the price for your lack of vision!

AetherMcLoud's Avatar


AetherMcLoud
02.13.2012 , 10:40 AM | #3
As a 50 Powertech these are the pros and cons from the top of my head:

PRO:
- Most survivable out of all the non-heal-specced classes.
- Lots of Utility (Juggernaut tanks get more stuns, Assassins get Force Pull, Powertechs get Charge)
- Guarding is awesome and gives you instantly 4 medals usually
- You make an awesome ballcarrier in huttball
- OK to good damage depending on your spec (hybrid or full tank)

CONS:
- You won't solo kill a healer. Ever.
- Overall you lack burst.
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

Gosten's Avatar


Gosten
02.13.2012 , 10:42 AM | #4
If you guard a healer, try to give him a wink and let him know that you're providing the guard. That way he knows healing you is a bit of a priority for his own survival and he might try to stay within the 15 meter guard range.

If there are no healers on your team, just guard once or twice to pick up the free extra medals and then play the rest of the match as dps.

AetherMcLoud's Avatar


AetherMcLoud
02.13.2012 , 10:44 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Gosten View Post
If there are no healers on your team, just guard once or twice to pick up the free extra medals and then play the rest of the match as dps.
If there is no healer or all the healers are guarded already, I always guard a Marauder. They simply RAVAGE the enemies when they are guarded.
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

Xallionn's Avatar


Xallionn
02.13.2012 , 10:46 AM | #6
Some good stuff here, but I'm not really looking for the pros and cons of a tank in pvp. I'm trying to compare the different tank specs. I actually run with a pet tank vanguard all the time and we are basically unstoppable when he's guarding me. I went from level 10 to BM in pvp with him, so I know tanks are good. However, I don't know all of the ends and outs of each tank and how they compare to each other.

EDIT: I suppose I should also mention that my tank friend is rolling a healer, so I will have a pet healer that I'll be protecting/guarding.

Sabbathius's Avatar


Sabbathius
02.13.2012 , 10:46 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Xallionn View Post
I've been running as a sorc healer for a long time in warzones and feel that it's time for a change of pace. I've decided on a tank (or at least being able to guard+taunt), but I'm trying to better understand the pros and cons of the tank classes. I'm looking for Survivability, Utility, Damage in Pvp environments. Does anyone have a link to where this is already outlined? Can level 50 tanks speak up as to what they feel they can bring to the table better/worse than other tanks?
Taunts can be done in any stance, you don't need to be a tank to do it.

Guard is largely useless, unless you're getting heals. In many cases, it is actually a negative. What Guard does is reduce damage 5% on your target, and then split the remaining damage between you two. What happens if you are not getting healed is, the enemy will lock down and focus fire your target, and you will die roughly at the same time as your target. So, instead of chasing and killing TWO targets, the enemy has to chase and kill just one. Yes, damage required to do it is doubled, but they also get a double kill for it. In other words, Guard is for when you have heals or to keep the ball carrier alive a little longer. That's about it.

Tanking gear and tanking stats are largely useless in PvP. Plenty of posts about it detailing why. For example, a crit cannot be shielded. Ever. Now consider how many classes have skills/talents/procs that make the next attack an automatic crit. Huge number. Now consider how many classes have buffs to their crit chance. Recklessness for Inquisitors, +60% crit chance for next 2 attacks. Explosive Fuel for Powertechs, +25% crit chance for next 15 seconds. Etc., etc. Add all of that together, and you won't be shielding much of anything.

Armor? Consider how many classes have armor bypass/reduction. Carnage Marauder can ignore 100% of the armor. Deception Sin's backstabs ignore 50% armor. Concealment Operatives ignore 30% of the armor (or whatever it is after the nerf, used to be 50%?). Mercs and Juggs can debuff your armor by 25%. Etc., etc.

In other words, in PvP tanks are FAR squishier than in PvE. Lately, I see more and more tank classes playing DPS specs in PvP, or hybrid specs, rather than tanking specs. The loss of DPS vs the small gain in survival just doesn't make it worth it.

EDIT: And tanks are all more or less the same. Assassins have less armor rating, but higher defense chance. PTs have a best (arguably) mix. Juggs I think have the most armor rating? Each class has some defensive cooldowns.

Sins have 3-5 seconds of 100% immunity to force/tech, and 50% ranged/melee deflection for 15 sec.
PTs have 12 seconds of -25% damage taken from all sources, and 15% heal over 10 seconds (on 3 min cooldown).
Juggs have deflection and Invincible, which is 40% reduction to all for 10 seconds (also 3 min CD).

It'll be easier for you to just look this stuff up on TorHead.com or wherever.

Mumit's Avatar


Mumit
02.13.2012 , 11:33 AM | #8
Personally I don't feel like there's a point to being a tank in PVP. I've played a Juggernaut as all three specs.

DPS can taunt at the same effectiveness as you.
Guard is just an invitation to die faster (You take the same damage as the person you guarded, at their mitigation, effectively rendering your mitigation pointless)
As an immortal juggernaut, you gain only one extra tanking cool down (40% damage reduction on a long timer)
You gain a 4 second stun and don't have the channel force choke. However, both nearly fill up the resolve bar.
You deal about 1/5 the damage of the other two specs.
(Personally) I felt more survivable as Vengeance due to the reduced damage and healing when charging/intercepting


if you want to play a tank in PVP, i recommend just playing as one of the tanking classes but as a DPS spec.

Xallionn's Avatar


Xallionn
02.13.2012 , 03:15 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Mumit View Post
Guard is just an invitation to die faster (You take the same damage as the person you guarded, at their mitigation, effectively rendering your mitigation pointless)
According to www.sithwarrior.com someone had asked Georg Zoeller. He said that the tank does mitigate the damage, however it's unclear as to how much of that damage the tank actually mitigates (all or only half). Granted most of the tank's mitigation is pointless, but I'm sure their cooldowns are still quite helpful.
Source: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Tank-Healer-combo
When I'm a healer, any tank who puts guard on me not only gets my vote, but they will almost never die so long as they stay near me. Guard + healer makes it incredibly difficult to kill the healer. And the healer keeps the tank alive because they love guard.

Regardless, this is off topic. I'd be fine with a dps spec so long as I'm able to utilize guard. I just want to be able to do the following:
Guard my healer.
Protect my healer with good cc or effects like harpoon. (in addition to taunt/AOEtaunt/guard)
Kill or severely hinder opposing healers.
Do good dps (not great).

I'm just trying to see how effective the 3 different tank classes can do this.

Mumit's Avatar


Mumit
02.13.2012 , 03:24 PM | #10
Guard is the major thing separating tanks from DPS. DPS can still use taunt, but can not use guard while in their DPS 'stance.'

I've tested out guard with a couple of friends. A hit that was dealing about 750-850 damage on him was dealing about half (Slightly less, 5% damage reduction on guard) that to both he and I, with no less damage taken by me.


Quote:
but I'm sure their cooldowns are still quite helpful.
Being a jugg, the only cool down I gain over a DPS spec is invincible. 40% less damage taken.

Hope that helps.